Red Light, Green Light

Everything has a price – except The Remnant, of course. That’s free. But regardless, Jonah ...

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Everything has a price – except The Remnant, of course. That’s free. But regardless, Jonah flies solo once more and shares some advice he learned from his father about how to appraise the worth of any activity in life. On that theme, it turns out that he puts little worth in political eschatology, partisan psychological research, and the dichotomy implied by the terms ‘left-” and “right-wing.”


Show Notes:

–Pastor Douglas Wilson’s show, coming soon with a Jonah Goldberg episode

–Marxist eschatology

–David French’s recent Remnant appearance

–This week’s G-File

–The worst example of left-wing political-psychological drek

–Conservatism as an Ideology

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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  1. Avatar photo
    James Clarke

    Jonah - I don't like the solo ruminations. But alas, I am in the minority. And also, this one was better than others. I much prefer the interchanges you have with guests.

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    Patrick O'Rouke

    Fisheries biologist who works for an electric power company here, so I feel a little more qualified than normal to weigh in on some eighth-baked ideas this time.

    Your ideas about using limestone to make the ocean less acidic and about adding dead animals to the ocean to replace protein are fundamentally correct. However...

    On the limestone thing, you need to think about the volume we're talking about with the world's oceans. Unfortunately, acidified precipitation isn't something we can target as a point source and drop a mitigating compound in a specific area. It goes up in the atmosphere and then comes down in a dispersed manner, all over land and sea. There probably isn't enough mine-able limestone in the world to be able to move that needle, and if you didn't spread it out evenly you'd end up making areas of some oceans/seas too basic by accident. The transport cost of filling the seas with limestone would make just shutting every coal plant in the world cold turkey right now and replacing that generation with a more expensive alternative look like a financial bargain.

    On the protein thing, it's true that we harvest a lot of protein out of the sea. But a protein is a compound made of basic elements. It's more important to look at those elements. Most important in any aquatic system for productivity are the same basic ones you'd need in your garden-N, P, and K. Ocean productivity works from the bottom up, and those same nutrients create phytoplankton (algae) and from there up the food chain we go. Moreover, the overfishing problems tend to happen at specific trophic levels, for instance overharvest of menhaden in the Mid-Atlantic can be bad for species like striped bass (rockfish for your beltway types). Dumping a bunch of hog carcasses in the Chesapeake probably doesn't do much for rockfish; it would just make the sharks really happy and draw them in to the dump zone. Eventually the nutrients from those hogs would cycle into the system, but we actually are already putting more nutrients than we would under normal conditions into our ocean systems because of active fertilization of agricultural fields and yards. The excess N, P, or K goes into estuaries and creates excess blooms of algae, which eventually die and start rapidly using up oxygen that other aquatic organisms need. This is why when you buy crabs in Maryland or at the DC wharf these days, they're more likely to come from Louisiana.

    In a way, we can look at mitigation of natural systems from a Hayekian perspective. Natural cycles are just way too complex for us to effectively micromanage unexpected responses to human activity. If you take the approach that we have to eliminate human impact on the environment were kind of all screwed, so the best approach is to work to minimize our impact in a sane way. You and Matt Ridley touched on this some in talking about agriculture, e.g. the amount of water we need per acre is decreasing. If we can reduce water and fertilizer use while keeping up productivity via efficiency gains, we're seeing less adverse impact on the back end. Same goes with overfishing...the best solutions we've come up with for the tragedy of those commons has been to set up the fishery where participants have a financial incentive to avoid overharvest.

    My solution to the animals being slaughtered and buried due to demand collapses would be to offer them at the source. The reason farmers can't get them out to people is the same reason we can't fill the ocean with limestone: shipping costs. But if you gave some sort of blanket protection that fell outside of FDA regulations and provided liability protection where people could show up at a facility and take a whole hog, freshly killed, in the back of their truck, I think that would work. I know lots of rednecks, and plenty of rednecks would drive long distances for such things. Then again we might see negative social distancing externalities, because if you've got a whole hog to cook, you're probably not just eating it with your family of four...

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    1. Photo of Jonah Goldbergcircle-angle-nib
      Jonah Goldberg vertical-nib Author

      Sorry for the delay. But I absolutely loved this. Lots to noodle here. Thank you.

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  3. Avatar photo
    The Bell Tower

    Not sure if this is the podcast where you talked about Ezra Klein's ridiculous article on the psychology of conservatism and liberalism (terms I guarantee that dude can't even define) where he goes around interviewing experts who clearly agree with what he's already decided is true about the psychology and the science. I also thought it was interesting that you've got me reading Julien Benda and he may as well have responded to Ezra himself:

    "But the most remarkable thing about the modern 'clerk' in his desire to bring political passion to his work, is that he has done so in philosophy, more precisely, in metaphysics remained the inviolate citadel of disinterested speculation."

    I feel like this entire section of the book is dedicated to the Ezra Kleins of the world who spend hours of intellectual speculation trying to make the "data" show how much smarter and more virtuous they are than those unwashed conservative Neanderthals clinging to their guns and religion.

    Perhaps I'm being unfair to Ezra and you could certainly argue fairly that many "conservatives" (of the Trumpian bent) are doing exactly the same thing with the science. The modern conversation is overwhelmingly a bonfire of the strawmen where each side takes the experts they agree with and holds up partial quotes and snippets of theories as proof of their invincible correctness. This phenomenon is the primary reason why I subscribe to The Dispatch - because there is almost no safe haven left where Trumpian worship or Trumpian hatred hasn't seeped into the marrow of all the writing and talking points.

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    1. Avatar photo
      The Bell Tower

      One last thing: I love The Ruminant even if I can't unsee the Golberg underwear discussions and their unsettling relationship to the Goldberg "manbrosia" discussions.

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  4. Avatar photo
    Barry Cope

    Thanks very much for another delightful Ruminant. I’ve long thought that a thorough discussion of the origins of the terms “left” and “right” and what those terms have meant over time would be a terrific article or even a book. I believe it would be helpful in order to put modern positions and policies in a better historical context. I have come to view the left-to-right spectrum as stretching from authority on the left to liberty on the right, so that the more a public policy empowers an authority it is more leftward and the more it empowers an individual it is more rightward (which is wildly simplistic, but I’ve thought it has been helpful). Using that type of continuum as a lens, it seems to me that the latest versions of supposed “right wing” authoritarianism (ala Sohrab Ahmari’s anti-David-Frenchism) can more accurately be characterized as just a move to the left by the proponents. It seems to me that Catholic authoritarianism is still authoritarianism, which is a leftist doctrine.

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  5. David Berggren

    I don't know if this is the correct place to send this, but I'll try anyway. A half-baked idea:
    I'm not a fan of everyone voting, but restrictions can be tricky. The uninformed voter is one problem, but another is the conflict of interest voter. To help the conflict of interest, here is an idea. If you work for the federal government, part of your work agreement is that you cannot vote in federal elections (president, representatives, senators (let's go back to states appointing them.)) There would need to be exceptions such as the military, but bureaucrats should not be allowed to vote their own best interests as government employees. Extend that to state employees (teachers may be paid by the state and/or local districts so some cases may be difficult) and down to county and city governments. Of course, the devil is in the details, but in general it could reduce the power of government voting blocks.

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  6. ROBERT

    Yes, great stuff. I'll happily keep paying for all this content. I like the concept of The Ruminant because as you ramble and ruminate, it allows us to do the same- which is highly beneficial right now. We all need time and stimulation to rethink things. Keep going!
    But c'mon dude, how much more money did you ask for? Or did you ignore your father and walk away without asking? It's a great concept and cool story. But you left us hanging. If you don't mind sharing, give us the payoff (pun intended) of that great story!

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    1. Photo of Jonah Goldbergcircle-angle-nib
      Jonah Goldberg vertical-nib Author

      I ended up asking for an amount he didn't want to pay, and so I was happy not to get it. I can't remember what it was tbh.

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      1. ROBERT

        Thanks for the response! Your father is wise!

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  7. Avatar photo
    Kevin Johnson

    Great stuff. Ignore the critics...even in your head! Thanks.

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    BWG

    I enjoy The Ruminant because it fills in and adds texture to your other posts from the week.
    You've really ramped up the content the last few weeks. I used to be able to read and listen to everything, now I have to pick what looks most interesting. But that's a good problem, so thank you. The downside is that it seems there's more trolling going on in the comments. Probably because once you rise to a certain level of popularity the opposition has to check you out and start lobbing torpedos. Regardless, I enjoy The Dispatch, including the comments for the most part, and I appreciate the work you all do to deliver interesting, insightful commentary. I especially, especially appreciate that it's pop-up and (mostly) ad free - please don't ever change that!

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  9. Avatar photo
    Seth B

    Eschatology and scatology... alike in more than sound?

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  10. PM

    Artificial reefs sound interesting.

    De-koshering the ocean? Best leave that to a James Bond movie.

    Eschatology? Generally three outcomes: Happiness, Misery, and Oblivion.

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