Gun Violence, Gun Rights & Gun Idolatry

This week David and Curtis tackle the tough subject of gun violence. They look at ...

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This week David and Curtis tackle the tough subject of gun violence. They look at the various tensions between gun rights and gun control and the hyper-polarized responses we are apt to have on one side or the other. They also help us take a step back to think through the “how” of approaching such a complex issue versus just the “what” of our preferred policy outcome.

Show Notes:

–Rand Corporation – Gun Policy in America

–Rand Corporation – How Gun Policies Affect Mass Shootings

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  1. Avatar photo
    Denise Cote

    I am all for gun rights, but open carry of rifles crosses the line in my opinion. There's no need to be a jerk and people who try to intimidate others are jerks.

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  2. Laurie

    David's observation that Republicans are way more agreeable to restrictions based on suspicious behavior rather than outright restrictions on guns was enlightening. This could be a way forward for compromise with Democrats, however, such laws in the hands of authoritarian governors (DeSantis) and legislators could be used as reward and punishment.

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  3. Laurie

    The tragedy in Uvalde has left me undone as a mother of four. Like many of you, I still felt in despair at the end of the podcast wondering………what can possibly be done? It seems like the red flag law that David promotes, while indeed necessary- wouldn’t have helped much in Uvalde. I was thankful to read in my morning emails, “Your Local Epidemiologist” Katelyn Jetelina- who approaches gun violence as a national health crisis- outlines steps that we can take right now in her article “Firearms: What you can do right now.” https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/p/firearms-what-you-can-do-right-now?r=n51r4&s=r&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

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    LeGrand Northcutt

    Thank y'all for this episode. There was a lot of good conversation about idolatry that I think is incredibly important, and I am inspired. I have to admit though, I am not at all persuaded by the argument that advertising that you know how to use a weapon as, David, your family did would lead to less violence. In fact, given the strong evidence that stand your ground laws lead to more violence because it escalates the situation, I think that the same thing would happen-- advertising that you own and know how to use guns would escalate an argument and lead to more violence. Could you explain why you think these two ideas are conceptually different and therefore would lead to different results?

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    Melissa

    What an informative, civil discussion! Like David, I grew up with guns. Gun safety was drilled into our heads before the gun was in our hands. It was a tool we needed as farmers with livestock. I don’t expect people in urban areas to fully understand my gun experience, but I am willing to better understand their perspective. I am so upset by any circumstance where a child is harmed by a gun.

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  6. Alex Winkleman

    In the country, there are fewer police and fewer witnesses so the need for self defense is more apparent. And there a lot of places where it is safe and not too expensive to shoot potatoes or beer cans. If you grow up in the city, you aren’t allowed to shoot at the squirrels in your yard or set apples on the fence to shoot. You have to go to a range and rent a lane

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  7. Pat Cotton

    Although I have tried to understand the position of gun owners on a one-on-one basis, I have mostly gotten rhetoric in response to my questions. Thank you both for clearly stating both sides of the issue, and mostly for clarifying the gun fetish minority as opposed to responsible gun owners. I now have a better perspective on both sides of the issue, as well as an understanding of the time and research involved in determining the effectiveness of various laws.

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    Sharon Kohring

    I had hoped for a more substantive balance from this discussion. I really am trying to keep an open mind but the pro-gun arguments just seem to all be falling apart. I long ago dropped the phrase that I used to say, “Guns don’t kill people; people kill people.” Too many people are dead.

    This may seem overly simplistic to many, however, here goes:
    -I was raised in a pro-gun state in the USA.
    -My husband was a hunter and I learned to cook wild meat due to his “if we shoot it, we eat it” motto.
    -I have done target shooting with handguns and rifles, myself.
    -It was fun.
    -When camping as a family with kids, my husband always had a gun within reach that was capable of killing a bear.
    -I do not like guns.
    -Guns kill innocent people.
    -Guns kill a higher number of people at greater speed than a knife.
    -We now live in Australia.
    -Since the major mass shooting here, in 1996, there have been few mass shootings and they have involved small numbers of victims, generally all in one family.
    -Suicides and homicides dropped drastically after the response, in 1996, from the center-right government.
    -My grandchildren all go to school every day without any consideration given to a gunman arriving at their school.
    -The health and safety issues in their schools relate to Covid and head lice, not guns.
    -I can witness road rage on a motorway and breathe a sigh of relief because it will not, most likely, end with a shooting.
    -Yes, some criminals may have guns but they haven’t crossed our world and we don’t cross theirs.
    -Most of the people I know, here, have never even seen a gun.
    -From down here, in appears that, in the USA, gun rights continue to triumph over the right to life.
    -I remain a US citizen and a voter.
    -I am dismayed, and pray, for my homeland.

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    1. Pohl

      Perhaps you are familiar with the many studies showing little evidence that Australian laws have even affected gun homicides, which were on a decades-long downward trend. In addition to that, I don’t think banning semi-auto and pump rifles and shotguns will fly here, nor will the handgun restrictions that regulate things like magazine capacity, ammo purchases, and limit ownership to basically some hunters and target shooters. We will have to find our own way.
      But I hope you enjoy it there. I’ve always wanted to visit Australia. The news that they are going to re-ignite their leadership in the Pacific is welcome, too.

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        Sharon Kohring

        Thank you for your response. Studies are, indeed, varied with varied conclusions. Cause-effect is difficult to establish sometimes.

        I’ll compare it to potato chips (though that’s obviously oversimplified). I love salty chips but I know they do not contribute to my health nor do they contribute to the health of others in my family. If there are chips in the house, when I am hungry I’ll grab them out of impulse. If there are no chips available to me, I won’t eat them. And I’ll be more likely to handle my hunger in a healthier way. It’s just that simple.

        We love Australia. I highly recommend a visit when the value of the USD makes it an affordable exchange rate. And yes, the new PM is in Southeast Asia at the moment, I believe.

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    Chany Ockert

    Thank you for this discussion on gun fetish/idolatry in the podcast and in the French Press Sunday enewsletter.

    While I grew up around guns, I was indifferent to them (I preferred fishing to hunting). It wasn't until I was stationed in a wilderness area, was often alone 15 miles from a road, and had 2 separate encounters with creepy men that I learned how to shoot. Self-defense encompasses more than death.

    I appreciate the framing of a gun fetish. A few years ago, a deer was hit in a busy intersection and - for the safety of the motorists - needed to be put down and dragged to the side of the road. One woman there carried a gun, but refused to use it. To this day, I don't understand the point of her owning a gun. If a gun viewed in its proper place, then it is tool. It can even be a tool for fun like skeet shooting.

    I would be interested in hearing more on Curtis's point about anxiety. I was at a peaceful protest organized by high school students and people showed up with open-carry guns to "protect the protestors from Antifa rumored to be coming in 2 full buses." I live in a small Montana community - Antifa was not going to show up and didn't show up in 2 full buses - and there were plenty of police on site. As a result of the rumors, many of the gun-carrying people were on edge - their anxiety through the roof - as evidenced by chain-smoking, pacing, and - literally - keeping their fingers on the trigger. What happens when anxiety is exploited - mostly as a grift - and leads to VERY DANGEROUS and irresponsible gun handling behavior?

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      TDit

      I think we only need to look at the Kyle Rittenhouse case to see what happens when anxious teenagers carry weapons of mass destruction into tense situations. He killed two people in "self-defense." But his only claims to self-defense were that he was afraid his victims were going to take his gun and shoot him with it.

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    Travis M

    I don't want to get into anything mentioned in the actual discussion, but I do have a standing offer for Curtis.

    If you're ever in Washington or the Portland area, I'm happy to travel to you and let you shoot a clip or two from my M-1 Garand!

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