Karen Swallow Prior on Twitter & the Printing Press

This week David and Curtis are joined by Karen Swallow Prior, writer, thinker, and research ...

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This week David and Curtis are joined by Karen Swallow Prior, writer, thinker, and research professor of English and Christianity and culture at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary. Karen talks to us about the current state of affairs in social media, particularly Twitter, and compares its impact on culture and the church to another critical technology, the printing press. She discusses how these modern technologies are impacting our brains, and how we can push back against this through the simple act of reading, especially the (necessarily slow and contemplative) reading of literature.

Show Notes:

–National Endowment of the Arts – “Reading at Risk: A Survey of Literary Reading in America”

–Caleb Crain (The New Yorker) – “Why We Don’t Read, Revisited”

-Sign up for David’s French Press newsletter

-Follow Curtis’ work at RedeemingBabel.org

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Comments (18)
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  1. Bob Wunder

    Loved David's listing Perelandra as a top 5 book.
    I also found the Sillmarillion to have even more obvious spiritual inspirations.

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  2. Adam Shields

    I just finished a book that I think would be a helpful interview.

    Nancy French has talked about sexual abuse and the church. And Curtis has talked about mental health and rest and similar topics.

    But prior to reading Trauma in the Pews: The Impact on Faith and Spiritual Practices by Janyne McConnaughey, I had not read a book about how trauma, especially childhood developmental trauma, impacts spiritual growth and development. There is a good introduction to what trauma is and then the author interacts with Richard Foster's Celebration of Discipline to work through ways that churches can pay attention to how trauma impact spiritual growth and development and ways that the church may unintentionally make the trauma worse by prescribing spiritual practices without regard to previous trauma, especially trauma that may be connected to a church background.

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  3. Adam Shields

    I appreciate Karen's contribution to the discussion. I have read all of her books and have followed her on Twitter and Facebook for years.

    I do think that as much as there are negatives to twitter, I wish there was more discussion of the positives. There was some here, about its role in holding leaders accountable and in justice movements like MeToo/ChurchToo and its role in police brutality cases.

    But it also is very helpful for giving alternative perspectives, especially perspectives for people that are not geographically close to you.

    I do think there are problems with bad actors, especially anonymous accounts on twitter. But I think twitter gets blamed too much. There is at least some evidence that cable news. still has a larger impact on polarization than social media does https://www.niemanlab.org/2022/08/cable-news-has-a-much-bigger-effect-on-americas-polarization-than-social-media-study-finds/

    I am someone that knows a lot about current twitter battles. And I think the ways that issues within the church play out on social media matter, especially the increasing embrace of christian nationalism as a positive description.

    Twitter and other social media is really important factor in accountability even if they are not strong enough by themselves in most cases to really matter outside of the twitter world. I could bring up a number of recent examples of people talking about issues of church leadership or abuse for years online but not being quite enough to get outside of the heavily online people until it starts being picked up by other news sources.

    So at least part of the issues with social media is the way it creates information disparity that is not fundamentally different from previous eras of information disparity, but it does still work differently from the ways that news reporters did not report on FDR's wheelchair use for instance.

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    TheKingPrawn

    David, I've only read LotR once, but I read this book every strategic deterrent patrol, plus a few times before and after the Navy. Highly, highly recommend it.
    https://www.stephenlawhead.com/byzantium

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  5. Fvirnellijr

    I have loved reading since Mrs. Pratt taught me in first grade at Hynes School in New Orleans, so I loved this podcast. I have read many of the books that were mentioned. Jane Eyre has now been added to my list. As for Les Miserables, I've looked into it a number of times but have become bogged down in which translation I should read.

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  6. Callie Coppin

    I really enjoyed this podcast! I agree Jane Eyre is a very important read and I'm recently reading it again. One book that has greatly impacted me in the last 10 years is the Count of Monte Cristo, full of sorrow, revenge, regret, and ultimately hope.

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      Carson J.

      I read a highly abridged version of that as a child and only revisited it (unabridged) earlier this year. What a great read! I have not had a book emotionally devastate me like that possibly ever.

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    Tracie

    Enjoyed the discussion. The way I keep myself accountable on twitter is I use my full name. My twitter handle contains a string of random numbers b/c I didn't put much effort into it, but there's no reason for me to.

    Social media has definitely eaten my attention span, not only because of the brevity of tweets and posts, but because of the compulsive checking. My phone has no doubt taken time and attention away from reading. When I make time for it, it has a calming effect for sure.

    So easy to write this post, but so hard to read an article, much less a book. Worries me that social media has increased my textual output, but maybe decreased my tolerance for input, i.e. listening. Reading is a kind of listening.

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    Ben Connelly

    I don’t wish to be overly negative in my comment. But - like other TD commenters in the past - I grow tired sometimes by the Twitter discussions on TD. (Curtis, I don’t really include you here, because you weren’t involved in what I consider the more egregious examples.)

    Your guest did an excellent job, and I really appreciate her perspective. But the Twitter-talk is a bit of preaching to the choir. Most TD subscribers aren’t on Twitter. Most of us who are, don’t spend much time on it. I get bored pretty quickly on social media, and - as your guest suggests we all should - I go read a book! I’ve never heard of these debates about what the word “pastor” means, because - like, I suspect, the majority of listeners - I don’t pay attention to Twitter debates.

    I’m sorry to be a bit of a nag or a scold. But it does bother me that on TD podcasts, listeners are often told to spend less time on Twitter. Yet at the same time, the ONLY way I learn about almost any Twitter debate is from listening to TD podcasts. You name it, I probably didn’t hear about it until I listened to David or Sarah or Jonah bring it up. And I’m one of the few subscribers who is actually on Twitter.

    With all that out of the way, this was one of the better discussions of the topic. Your guest had many valuable insights.

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      Tracie

      I'm on twitter, but the only debates I get into (and rarely) are fairly local ones via a local news account (@BlockClubCHI). Mostly, I share art and music, and rarely interact with anyone I know in real life.

      So, it's mostly the blue check marks and people who follow then that know about the twitter battles.

      That said, it's a very fast way to get breaking news, typically at the phone video and speculative stage.

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    Cthocas

    David: “We need to think deeply about how technology affects us.”

    Also David: “Haha my Kindle made reading into a videogame.”

    Anyway, good chat. I’ve read KSP for years, but I believe this is the first time I’ve heard speak. For some reason I assumed she had a southern accent!

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      Mark B

      Not all new things are bad but it struck me as odd as well.

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    Stomaino

    I was very glad that when the question came up of the most important piece of fiction literature in one's life came up, that David read from The Lord of the Rings. That's what I would do. There is no other piece of fiction literature more important in my life. It led me to be primarily a lover of fantastic literature in all its forms (science fiction, horror and the many things called fantasy). It also led me to C.S. Lewis who would be the 2nd most important writer in my life.
    I was born in 1952 and am in that first generation of American Tolkien readers who discovered the book in those Ballantine paperbacks, with the Barbara Remington covers, that cost the absurd price of 95 cents apiece. One of the proudest moments of my life was at a World Fantasy Convention at which Betty Ballantine was a Guest of Honor. She was responsible for those first authorized editions of Professor Tolkien's books being published, after Donald Wollheim had taken advantage of copyright laws to published the unauthorized Ace editions, which actually had better Jack Gaughan covers. There was a very well attended panel in which Mrs. Ballantine told us the story of how these came to be published, after she discovered them. There was a question and answer period and many people had good questions and comments. I had a sudden inspiration, and put up my hand and was recognized. I stood up and simply said, "Mrs. Ballantine, thank you for changing all our lives." The audience broke out into spontaneous applause and Mrs. Ballantine had a big smile on her face. I was so happy to be able to thank her.
    I first read The Hobbit in 1967 on the advice of my best friend, Mark E. Rogers. The books would have an even more profound effect on his life as he would become a published fantasy author and even more so as the book would lead him to meet the woman whom he would marry and have four children with. I read The Hobbit, identifying with Bilbo all the way. I was short, inclined to be fat, loved eating and not naturally adventurous. When I read the first chapter of The Lord of the Rings, my identification became more complete when I found out WE HAD THE SAME BIRTHDAY! Yes, my birthday is September 22nd and I am still delighted. At the time, The Lord of the Rings was the most ambitious thing I ever read. It was long! I would read it 10 times in the next 10 years.
    And then, The Silmarillion came out. David rightly points out that it is the more profound work. Reading it gave me an insight into Middle Earth that I had not had. More important, it gave me an insight into how deadly Tolkien felt the sin of pride is. The major characters who fall in the book, Melkor/Morgoth, Fëanor. Túrin Turambar fall because of pride and it leads to bad actions from the other characters, too. I thought back to The Lord of the Rings and realized that was true of the three characters who had been good but fell: Saruman, Boromir and Denethor. I went on to think that the real hero of the book, Sam Gamgee, is the least prideful. He keeps true to the quest when even Frodo fails. For that he gets the real happy ending. He comes back home, weds his girl, had many children and becomes an important leader in his hometown. Then, after living a Wonderful Life, he gets to retire to the Undying Lands!
    There was another thing that happened to me after reading The Silmarillion. When I went back to read both The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit, I suddenly understood them better. There are a lot of references to The Silmarillion in them. On that first re-reading, I felt as if I had read them with only one eye open for those ten times before.
    The Lord of the Rings gave me many important insights into life. One of them is into American political life. It is the concept of Ringbearers, and the idea that when one has borne the ring, even briefly, one can better understand another who has borne the ring. Bilbo, Frodo and Sam understand Gollum because of the this. In American political life, our Ringbearers have been the Presidents of the United States. Years ago, there was a book published called The President's Club that talked about how former Presidents understood one another, irrespective of the political views, that no one else could. We know do have a president who, amongst his many faults, is not a member of that club. But I think that insight still holds. Someone who is well versed in Tolkien and American political history, could probably write a book discussing each President, since Truman, who has had his finger on the nuclear button, is like one of the Ringbearers: Isildur, Smeagol and Gollum, Bingo, Frodo and Sam. It might be best to not make one for one correspondences. Presidents might exhibit different Ringbearer aspects at different times.

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      Ben Connelly

      Wow! Thanks for sharing your story. You’re about the age of my father, but you’ll be pleased to know Tolkien’s impact has perhaps only grown throughout the generations. Many of my friends read him at a very early age and his work had a profound impact on our childhood and love of reading.

      My family had an audiobook version of the Hobbit which was absolutely delightful that we used to listen to fairly often. I read that book in second grade and the trilogy in third grade (which was a bit of a stretch for me at the time). Tried to read the Silmarillion after that but I wasn’t mature enough for it at the time.

      In high school, I went back and read the Silmarillion and I was floored. I agree with you and David that it might be the most profound. That made me go and read through Tolkien’s other attempts at telling those stories: The Books of Lost Tales, the unfinished tales, the Lays of Beleriand, etc. It was fascinating to see how his conception of the stories, the characters, the languages, the history, and Middle Earth changed and grew and deepened throughout the years.

      I will have to go back and reread the Lord of the Rings. I confess I never have. I think perhaps I was too young and I missed a great deal. Especially, as you say, because without reading the Silmarillion, there is a deeper context that I didn’t pick up on. Thank you for your comment.

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        Stomaino

        You're welcome and thank you for your story. While I had read the Unfinished Tales and Lost Tales twice, I finally sat down and read all of the History of Middle Earth this past year. It certainly had fascinating information there. It will be interesting when I go back and read LotR now.

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          Ben Connelly

          I read the Fall of Gondolin a year ago. The standalone book that Christopher Tolkien put together as part of the History of Middle Earth. I’ll probably read the others, although I felt that between the Lays, the Silmarillion, the Books of Lost Tales, etc. that I’d read almost everything that was in The Fall of Gondolin.

          The one I’m most interested in reading is the Children of Hurin since my favorite part of the Silmarillion is the story of Turin Turambar.

          If you haven’t read the Lays, you might like them. It’s the collection of unfinished epic poem versions he did of the stories of Beren and Luthien and Turin Turambar mostly.

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            Stomaino

            I’ve read the Lays as part of The History of Middle Earth and enjoyed them. The Children of Huron is as good a read as The Fall of Gondolin. I did not like the Beren and Luthien as much. I assume you’ve read the short stories. Leaf by Niggle, which seems semi-autobiographical, is my favorite of those.

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