Iran Again, Naturally

Zigging while everyone else is zagging.

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AEI Senior Fellow Ken Pollack returns to the Remnant for a wonktastic discussion of the Middle East. With continued Iranian protests dominating international headlines, the conversation centers on the stability of the Iranian regime, the goals of the Iranian people, and how the United States should respond. Why do continued mass demonstrations in Iran seem to be an intellectual afterthought in the West? What will happen to Iran’s nuclear program if its government collapses? And what are the best things the Biden administration could do to help the Iranian people? 

Show Notes:

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  1. Mherickson

    I enjoyed this discussion about the revolutionary movement going on in Iran and the dynamics at play. And while I appreciated the discussion about what the U.S. should be doing to support those efforts, I thought this conversation could have used some discussion about the hazards of the helping. The U.S. government doesn't have a great record when it comes to nurturing the seeds of democracy in the Middle East and Central Asia. I don't think our record in places like Libya and Syria during the Arab Spring (to say nothing of Afghanistan) are examples of shining success. Americans in general, and American foreign policy, intelligence and military types in particular, have a habit of assuming things about grassroots anti-regime movements in authoritarian countries that turn out not to be true. The Iraqis in 2003 cared more about settling blood feuds than they did about participating in American-style democracy.

    Hating the Ayatollah isn't the same thing as loving America (and "help" from our CIA). What do the Iranian people really want? Do we know and are we sure? It's one thing to wish for a free and democratic Iran, but determining what efforts make that outcome more or less likely is another thing entirely.

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    Narwhal

    My main takeaway from this episode is that Ken Pollack wants regime change in Iran, through whatever means, and he doesn’t want any deals with the current regime, regardless of their utility. I did appreciate how honest he was about this.

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    BWG

    Enlightening perspective from Dr. Pollack, thanks for this conversation. It immediately made sense that Saudi Arabia is employing the "China model": improving economic and social conditions but keeping a tight grip on the political, in this case House of Saud vs CCP . That doesn't bode particularly well for our future relationship, but then again SA is very different from the PRC in many ways; one major difference being that SA's global leverage, oil, will be dwindling over the next 25 - 50 years, while China's global leverage, their consumer market and economic activity, will likely continue to grow over the same time.
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    Edit: Interesting though that there was no discussion of the deal-with-the-devil the House of Saud made with the Wahhabists: that they would tolerate the Wahhabists in return for their support, or at least not outright opposition. There's a straight line from that deal to Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaeda.
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    Thanks also for a break from mid-term madness.

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    Larry

    I like it shorter, like this one.

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  5. Djtmcdowell

    With all due respect to Mr. Pollack, if he thinks people in other countries love American values but hate American policies, why is he advocating policies intervening in the politics of foreign countries? It seems to me the kind of intervention he and Jonah advocate is exactly the kind of policy that has proven so unpopular in the Middle East. To be clear, I don’t question that the Iranian regime is autocratic and does evil things (including the way it has treated protesters recently); I question the United States’ ability to make a meaningful positive impact in Iran via our policies.

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    Michael Harris

    The episode begins in the middle of an ad read.

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      Jill

      And the ad read ends with the beginning of a comment on “okay, so on the Toobin thing…” which I honestly wish weren’t cut off😂

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  7. Kmsinatra

    Jonah,
    Thank you for having Ken on! I think so highly of him. I was blown away by his book "The Persian Puzzle" which I read after graduating college. I had always been interested in Iran, geopolitics and national security but for some reason his book really struck a chord with me. I wrote to him (on pen and paper!) and he sent me a signed copy of his "The Threatening Storm." Very kind of him and my first interaction with someone famous!

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    Pastorfbt

    This episode began at a midpoint on the generic Google podcast app? That is, somewhere downstream of the intro. Time showed as 47 minutes total?

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    Michael Berkowitz

    I don't tend to see American politics through an Israeli lens, but I've always had the sense that much of what was driving the Obama administration's pursuit of Iran was the desire to do Israel one in the eye.

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      CynthiaW

      I agree.

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  10. Mmorrissey001

    I didn't get the title until I read it out loud.

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