Sinister Stupidity or Stupid Sinisterness?

Cui Bono?

By
42

Jonah is in a suspiciously pleasant mood coming off The Dispatch’s live event in New Hampshire but regular disclaimers of tiredness still apply. Before replaying the Ruminant’s greatest hits, he criticizes Rand Paul’s ironic response to Donald Trump’s claim of presidential immunity, explains how 2024 might begin to look like 2016, and kvetches about the anti-Trump crowd’s catastrophization. Stick around for some ruminations on doggy eugenics.

Show Notes:
— Trump’s “full immunity” truth

— Rand Paul’s filibuster against John Brennan

—G-File: The Unpopular Vote

—Jonah: Mau-Mauing the Dogcatcher

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Comments (42)
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  1. Eigerjoch

    Just sat finishing listening to this episode at 1am, great episode, enjoyed a lot. I know Jonah said he was very tired but didn't stop him finding interesting topics.
    Never had a dog but I find them interesting in a sort of 'sweet but not for me too much work' way:) It's weird to think how long the breeding for traits must take? I mean dogs that like fetching balls- how many generations of 'that dog came back with the pheasant quicker!!!' did that take?:)

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    LonesomeRhodes

    1. A great podcast, Jonah. I’d like to double click on the scenarios you laid out for our imminent doom if Trump either wins or loses (or is ruled ineligible?). What does it likely mean for our institutions and for peace in the country? Maybe since Steve’s been so roundly crushed by Sarah in their bet, this can be the next phase of the team’s High Stakes predictions.

    2. More interestingly, after decades of experience, I can confirm that German Shepherds and the like are ‘peak dog’. I don’t recommend them to everyone because most people are not the ideal owners for them, and it takes a real understanding of dogs and a commitment to good ownership to have a positive relationship with them. After hearing your AMA, when it’s time, you and the fair Jessica owe it to yourselves to give one a shot. If you’re like me, you’ll never have another breed again. What’s more, there are many great rescues dedicated to the breed that could help you out- Virginia German Shepherd Rescue could help in the DC area.

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      George.Skinner

      I'd guess that after having had a "primitive breed" like a Carolina Dog, the Goldbergs would be well-practiced for the demands of a German Shepherd but thoroughly delighted by the character and breeding.

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    Charley Warns

    That "Trump blew up the peaceful transfer of power" is an excellent way to put it. And that he wasn't impeached for that alone, is unfortunate. Given the odds are significant that Trump will be impeached and convicted –if he manages somehow to win– likely explains Tim Scott's enthusiastic –yet pathetic– support for Trump.

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    Alex RC

    I don't share Jonah's confidence that Trump can't refuse to leave office & find support for it.

    Yeah, it's black and white constitutionally - but all of Jan 6 should have been a black/white time to bar him from office & never vote for him again, and here we are.

    If the R base can swallow all the BS to date, why couldn't they be convinced to keep him in office? (An argument: the Dems basically "stole" his first term with the "Russia hoax", he deserves a "make-up" term.) If the Trumpiest base supports something, R politicians have shown themselves too cowardly to resist. I'm not confident this particular abuse of the system would finally be the bridge too far.

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    The Bell Tower

    I think Trump’s reason for total immunity is not totally without merit. It’s just that the idea of a president with such immunity is batshit crazy.

    It isn’t difficult to imagine Trump winning again and then being dragged through the courts constantly and relentlessly. That’s exactly what will happen. In fact, it’s already what is happening right now.

    The problem, as I said in a previous post, is that Trump’s behavior warrants many of the legal troubles he finds himself in. It is also thoroughly insane to provide any human who commands the entire executive branch and the military blanket immunity for the obvious reasons Jonah already stated.

    But I do get Trump’s point. He thinks Democrats will try to bog him down with a lot of pointless lawsuits. Lawfare is what DeSantis called it. He isn’t wrong.

    Of course, there’s a super easy answer here for Republicans who don’t want to see their political objectives drowned in a bunch of legal red tape and distractions: don’t vote for Donald Trump! Even if you really like the guy and you think the lawsuits are unfair, why do you need this baggage? Pick someone who doesn’t perjure himself every ten minutes.

    I can’t understand this part of it. What is Trump going to do that DeSantis or even Ramaswamy couldn’t besides act like a jackass at press conferences and tweet about Jimmy Kimmel? They both proved they could even do that. What is so much better about President Trump than President Other Republican? I just don’t get it.

    I’d love to drive a Lamborghini but I can’t afford it. So, I’ll just buy a car I can afford and live with it. I suppose I could sell my house and stocks and go buy one and also live in it but for what reason? It’s just a car, man! Pick one that fits your budget and be done with it.

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      George.Skinner

      I think Trump got tagged as a "winner" among a lot of Republicans because he did manage to eke out a win in 2016. It was a really flukey win that came down to narrow margins in a handful of counties in a few swing states, but coming out the winner was something that McCain and Romney had both failed to do. They also had lost to Obama, a progressive who many Republicans not only disliked but actively disdained (hey, Republicans - that's a taste of what Democrats felt losing to George W. Bush...) Finally, the misinterpreted thesis of "The Emerging Democratic Majority" had worked its way into their heads, leaving Republicans feeling like the system was stacked against them ever winning again (see also Romney's remarks about the 48% of Americans who'd never vote for a Republican.)

      So, Trump's winning the 2016 election seemed like a Herculean feat to Republicans who believed they were doomed to lose. They also proved a receptive audience to Trump's boasts that he'd won some uniquely significant and massive triumph. The whole thing falls apart with just a little perspective and rational analysis, but like most victims of a con, a lot of Republicans were thrilled with the feeling that the con artist was selling and were happy to go along with it.

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        The Bell Tower

        The con thing is a good analogy. As a Republican, I know what it feels like to watch a family member join a cult now.

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  6. R. James

    Yes, Mike Lee is a coward but he's got a lot of company. Every Republican Senator in 2021 that voted to acquit Trump in his Impeachment trial was a coward, and judging by the conduct of those still in the Senate, they still are cowards. Mitch McConnell, Mike Lee and their ilk could have stopped all this Trump 2024 nonsense with a single vote. But they put their own political career over the good of the country. They are unpatriotic cowards and they are on the hook for all the bad that comes from Trump 2024.

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    Mudskipper

    Although I largely agree with Jonah in his criticism of Democrats propping up MAGA candidates in Republican primaries and disagreed with that strategy myself, I would point out that from some Democrats it might not be as hypocritical as it seems.

    That is, if you are a Democrat that believes that Trump is a great threat to our democratic republic, you might well believe the best way to neutralize that threat is to make sure that Democrats have a majority in the Senate and House. And you might be willing to roll the dice a bit on individual elections to achieve that, particularly if you have no trust that the "normie" Republican candidate will reign Trump in. In other words, when it comes to standing up against Trump when it counts, you might not see that there is much of a difference between a MAGA Republican candidate and a normie Republican candidate.

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    1. Acre00

      That's the problem, isn't it? To a certain segment of the Democratic apparatus, every Republican is either a racist, fascist, Hitler wannabe; or so insufficiently against them that they're indistinguishable. These are the same people that called Bush a fascist and Romney a racist.

      I'm not sure which is worse, whether they are cynically doing it or whether they actually believe it.

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        Mudskipper

        Can you point to any sitting Republican Senator besides Romney who would be a reliable vote to impeach Trump even if Trump performed a clearly impeachable act?

        I'm having trouble coming up with more than just a handful. Most have showed themselves to be pretty craven. And it is that experience that would inform the Democrat's perspective on this.

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        1. Acre00

          My point is that they will always have a reason to take that perspective, that's why I pointed out Bush and Romney. The idea that this time it's different would carry a lot more weight if they acted like it was different - but they don't.

          FWIW, I don't think there are more than 5 senators that would ever vote for impeachment for a president of their own party, certainly not while that president is still supported by a majority of the base. Politicians as a class are spineless and vapid, driven by the need to stay in office.

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            Mudskipper

            Well, you seem to be contradicting yourself here. You bash the Democrats for being "the problem" because they see every Republican as "a racist, fascist, Hitler wannabe." Yet at the same time you are saying the hypothetical Democratic operatives I am talking about would be absolutely correct to see Republicans as a class being unwilling to impeach Trump.

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    Mudskipper

    Re: Lew Rockwell and gang. I poked around Lew Rockwell's website in the early 2000s. I think I'd call them "state's rights libertarians." These were descendants from the old Confederacy who still believed the Civil War was about state's rights. They weren't remotely civil libertarians. One very good reason why they were state's rights libertarians was that they fiercely resented the federal government's enforcement of the civil rights of certain populations: blacks, women, and non-Christians to name a few. There is no greater illustration of this than the fact that Gary North was a prominent contributor to the site, and what Gary North wanted for the United States was a full-blown theocracy based on Old Testament principles, complete with the stoning of adulterers and nonbelievers who were open about their nonbelief. Fundamentally, they wanted their own states that they could control in an extremely authoritarian manner.

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    Charley Warns

    I'll apply the word "bastardization" to my comment to accentuate my point.

    As Edmund Burke put it, "It is ordained in the eternal constitution of things, that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." John Adams argued that our society should expect most of its members to be mostly good and moral in character if it is to survive. That said, did the writers of Article 2 Section 2 of the Constitution really need to qualify it with: "Needless to say, people, the president can not pardon himself, as that would be a complete ... bastardization, if you will, of what we are trying to accomplish here."? The entire idea that Trump, of all people, would be the first to test the limits of the wording should tell us something.

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    1. Goatprairie

      We've had past presidents who tested the limits of their authority...in other words did dictatorial/unconstitutional things. Wilson and FDR to wit.
      But they didn't announce they wanted to be dictators and probably didn't think what they did was dictatorial.
      Trump plainly would like to be a dictator. I find it amusing that the cult can't understand that if Trump as president should be allowed to do anything he wants without punishment, Biden could now have him arrested and executed. Cultists don't understand a lot of things.

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        George.Skinner

        I wonder if MAGA also shares the pseudo-Nietzschean belief of the Nazis that the right to power belongs to those with strong enough will to seize and use it? They might believe that Biden could have that power too, but is unfit to have it because of his lack of will. That sort of belief in latent power could also go a long way to explaining the strength of the "Flight 93 election" panic - people genuinely believing that their life and liberty are at peril if the other side gets to use it first.

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        1. Goatprairie

          Contrary to what many liberals think, most cultists are not nearly as evil as they, liberal, want to believe.
          It's just that they've hitched their star to a rogue who they don't think is one. They just think that Trump might make some nasty tweets, but his policies are great.
          I think as far as policies he has to be advised to do the right thing but still goes off on his own screwball tangents. His trade and tariff policies were awful. And when the country was being torn apart during the summer of 2020 by lawless mobs, he promised to act but did nothing to protect the rights of people victimized by the leftist mobs.
          Of course there are a number of nuts in MAGA who want to give Trump carte blanche to do whatever he wants, legal or otherwise. But there are not as many of those types as liberals prefer to believe.
          I don't think a majority of Dem liberals liked the breakdown of law and order in 2020 that half destroyed many
          American cities. I'm sure many of them were aghast at the destruction.
          So, let's not paint either side as wholly one thing.

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  10. Chris

    Great podcast today, I agree with your criticism of Paul and Lee, and you could probably add Ted Cruz to the list. Was kind of surprised with the extensive eugenics stuff- if you've been getting push back on that, it might be because you've previously praised Charles Murray on this podcast and he sometimes does sound like those early 20th century eugenicists.

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      Charley Warns

      You can add Rubio to that list. I so regret defending that guy! Doug Burgum and Tim Scott, add them to your list.

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        Dave T

        Ugh, Tim Scott, what a disappointment

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        1. Chris

          That whole cohort of senators from the tea party wave has been a letdown.

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