Down to the Roots

On today’s Ruminant, Jonah provides a distinctly Goldbergian fusion of punditry and nerdery. After evaluating ...

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On today’s Ruminant, Jonah provides a distinctly Goldbergian fusion of punditry and nerdery. After evaluating Joe Biden’s use of the phrase “MAGA Republicans” and offering a few further thoughts on the Philadelphia speech, he discusses Steve Bannon’s arrest, the ongoing fallout from the Mar-a-Lago raid, and Gov. Greg Abbott’s migrant busing policy. It all ends on a philosophical note, as Jonah reflects on the distinction between conservatism and radicalism.

Show Notes:

– Last weekend’s Remnant

– Last Friday’s G-File

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  1. Andy

    Great talk in this episode, but man.. you have got to work on your filler word “um”.

    It is very distracting, and it got kind of excessive this episode.. I’m still a loyal listener though!!

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      Brian Jennings

      Writing "don't ummm" in the margins of my notes was the only way I avoided the umms when I started public speaking. I conquered it, but it came back when I started podcasting, so I started the practice again. Podcasting makes it easier to fall into these bad habits. Writers who search for the perfect word to say are especially susceptible (me included).
      Jonah, he's right. Give it 1 listen and you'll want to correct it - which you can.

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    Brian Jennings

    Enjoyed the pod! I agree that when the term "illegal immigrant" fits, it's fine to use. The problem is that "illegal immigrant" is often the term used for people who follow our rules but still get caught in our inept system without any reasonable options. (Our Afghan refugee friends were recently facing this: "Get your documentation in 2 years even though it will take longer than 10 or lose your status." Many people seeking asylum have followed our rules (come, apply, wait), so classifying them as "illegals" is both inaccurate and stigmatizing.
    And it's ok to pronounce both Abbot and Lightfoot as void of any intellectual honesty or good-faith here.

    Keep up the good work.

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  3. Jason Y

    Get ready to be uncomfortable Jonah, here comes another compliment. As someone on the center left, raised on and surrounded by a left-was-always-good history, I can't say enough about your knockout take-down of this style of history. I never saw this bias so clearly before, and it resolves a lot of cognitive dissonance I recognize from a younger self.

    Sometimes the left was just wrong. Seems pretty simple to just say it out loud now.

    Thanks.

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    O,W.L.

    As a center-left person who lives in rural Murica where the economy runs on immigrant labor, I am in violent agreement with you Jonah on the hypocrisy of the "sanctuary cities" and also the wisdom of moving undocumented immigrants out of the hard-hit border states and into the interior of the US where they can get a foothold and start a new life.

    Here's where Abbot is being a troll and a d*ck. If he was genuinely trying to solve a problem, he'd coordinate with other states and say "hey y'all, who wants a busload of cheap labor?" States like Iowa, Washington, Nebraska, etc. would say "sure!" But that won't punish the Bad People. That would actually be useful to the economy.

    He's right in that three states are disproportionately affected by people coming over the southern border. It should not fall on California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas to feed, educate, heal, and employ the huddled masses coming from Latin America. But there are places starving for these same huddled masses who would happily pay the price of a bus ticket for any immigrant who wanted to stand in a freezing cold slaughterhouse beheading chickens for $7.15 per hour. Shipping these people to New York and DC without any outreach to those cities to coordinate support for the arrivals is why this is such an outrageous dick move on the part of Greg Abbott.

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    The Bell Tower

    Regarding Mr. Bannon, there is a movie response and I’m surprised you didn’t reference it:

    “Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!”

    The man More lets go is much the same as Bannon and More’s decision comes back to haunt him in the end when that man abuses the law to get him executed.

    I also have no sympathy for Bannon but I do feel great regret if the New York Prosecutor’s office is being politicized to be used as a weapon against anyone, reprehensible or not. If it can be bastardized to get bad guys, it can be turned on the rest of us easily enough.

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  6. Michael.Mcchesney

    I agree with Jonah completely about the term "illegal immigrant." I refuse to use the term undocumented to refer to people who came to the United States illegally. Undocumented immigrant makes it sound like the person lost their wallet and/or ID. That said, I have no particular animosity towards illegal immigrants. The vast majority just want a better life for their families. But we need to be able to control our border. If we want to eliminate the permanent underclass of people in this country fearful of deportation we need to find a way to turn off the spigot. As Charles Krauthammer said on multiple occasions, if we could prevent future illegal immigration, the American people would be in favor of an amnesty for immigrants who haven't committed series non-immigration crimes.

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    OK Steele

    Jonah, you may find the recent episode “Search-A-Lago” of Yale Law Professor Akhil Amar’s podcast “AMARica’s Constitution” interesting. He lays out a different interpretation of the 4th amendment that he claims would allow us to stop rewarding the guilty by throwing out evidence if improperly gathered.

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    Brendon

    Just gonna drop a compliment here. I am looking forward to listening to your conversation with Sam Harris, whom I've followed and supported since 2006. For years he has shaped my thinking on many issues and so as a result I considered myself slightly left of center. But I came across the Remnant in 2017 and realized that there was a "right of center shaped hole" in my thinking where so many good arguments and ideas existed. After 5 years of listening to and reading the content created by Jonah Goldberg, I've definitely shifted to be right of center, to the point that I find I look forward to new episodes of the Remnant more than new episodes of Making Sense. In any case, all of this is to say that good arguments and sound reasoning can change how people see the world, so keep up the good work Jonah.

    Anyways, also curious if anyone else finds themselves here supporting The Dispatch after years of thinking of themselves as part of this "New Atheism" cohort?

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    1. GregS

      I'm a fellow Making Sense and Remnant listener too. But I was reading Jonah at NR before I started listening to Sam... And I find myself with Sam more than with Jonah for the most part.

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        Brendon

        Oh interesting. Yeah I still love Sam and Making Sense of course. But certain things catch my attention on the Remnant, such as Jonah's criticism of John Rawls "Veil of Ignorance" thought experiment (which Sam Harris seems to describe as airtight). I know exactly what Sam thinks on certain things but not entirely what JG does I guess.

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      Seth B

      I was never deep into the New Atheism stuff, but I've been reading and listening to Sam Harris for about 15 years now - ever since a student of mine gave me a copy of Sam's "Letter to a Christian Nation". (Like you, I teach math.) I love Sam's podcast.
      My political center of mass remains left of center and I suspect it always will, but I resonate with your "right-of-center shaped hole" comment. I want to hear good arguments and sensible perspectives from the right, and I generally find them here at the Dispatch. Much more so than any other right-wing media into which I've dipped.
      I'm very much looking forward to Jonah's appearance on Making Sense. Sam's recent conversation with David French was terrific. (Now if only Sarah could talk to the guys at The Fifth Column. 🙂)

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        Brendon

        Nice to see a fellow math teacher here. I'm sure you and I could trade stories and converse endlessly about the goings-on in education these days (assuming you teach at a public school).

        And I agree, I enjoyed the conversation with David French very much, and I'm halfway through the Jonah Goldberg one and I think it's real good, in spite of JG downplaying it.

        Have a nice rest of your week.

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    3. Pohl

      Welcome. Jonah doesn’t really talk about God, but I’m glad all the other sense he makes resonated with you.

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      Jonah Goldberg vertical-nib Author

      This was very kind of you. Compliments make me uncomfortable, but this was appreciated.

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        Brendon

        You're very welcome. Not to perpetuate the discomfort, but if some listeners give you crap for your ramblings on the Ruminants just remember some of us find very useful "Jonah-isms" that survive for years. You probably don't even remember many, but the other day I was describing the importance of mothers and described them as like "gerbils running in the wheel that sort of powers everything around them." I used "bachelors tend not to coach little league" recently. Then years ago you gave this vignette in the midst of a point about Schumpeter in which a journalist who majored in something like gender studies and who busts his butt to make, say 70 grand, returns to his modest apartment in NY only to sign on to Facebook and see the B/C student from high school, who majored in something more practical like business or engineering, holding the fish he caught on his new boat. Filled with resentment, he laments how capitalism doesn't work and the "system is broke", joins Occupy Wall Street, etc.. I still think about that one because it's a useful avenue back to the bigger ideas about Schumpeter's New Class arguments...

        Ok, sorry, ingratiating over. Signing off.

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        1. Pohl

          Well said. Is $70k what makes a commie nowadays? Posers.

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            Matt A

            Well, to give the commies their fair shake, $70k in NYC would be like $28k in your average city.
            I’d say that’s approaching a respectable “I don’t know how you’re alive”territory.

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          Anne W (Raw5254)

          I don’t know why, but whenever I particularly like what Jonah has to say (I usually do), I feel the urge to come to the comments and see how many on the left are upset with him. I haven’t gotten any further than this, and it’s a welcome surprise. Thank you!

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            Brendon

            Ha, I don't have the chance to come on here too often. So far it seems like a more positive and constructive place than Twitter (low bar, I know). I am a little surprised it's people on the left that get upset with him. He punches both ways for sure. I actually don't have any sense what kind of audience the Dispatch captures since there is so much re-shuffling in the political landscape these days. Anyways, thanks for the feedback, have a great week.

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    DJS

    Really appreciated the calling out of how progressives treat history and are treated by history.

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    KP

    Nice to see that Ukraine is bringing back Quaker guns...https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaker_gun

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