Butterfly Knives and Felon Voting Rights

Dude Person, Pig Cage, and Jet Toner.

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David and a particularly congested Sarah plan to forward this especially packed AO straight to the Supreme Court. Does the Eighth Amendment enshrine a felon’s right to vote and do people really think Jews have horns? Plus:

-Trump protective order battle

-Ghost gun regulation

-Southwest Airlines attends religious liberty training

-Butterfly knives and commercial firearm sales

-Ohio ballot initiative

-College football names

-What if Saturn was where our Moon is?

Show notes-

-David’s NYT column: I Don’t See a ‘Rogue’ Supreme Court

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Comments (161)
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  1. Avatar photo
    Reed Benet

    I'd like to weigh in both on my (depending on how strictly you define it) 3/4ths or 1/2s fellow peeps Jews and horns, as well as a funny story related to racism...

    1. Check out the horns on Michelangelo's statue of Moses ( Exodus chapter 34, specifically verses 29, 30 and 35 -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses_(Michelangelo)). It is believed that this comes from a mistranslation of "shone/shined" in Exodus regarding how Moses' face looked when he came down Mount Sinai with the 10 Commandments. Supposedly the Aramaic translates better to "shone/shined" while the Latin vulgate translation was "with horns."
    2. Supposedly in the course of a semi-difficult birth on my part, I came out with two "bumps/horns." So if anyone wants to contribute to my GoFundMe as the (pun intended) Godhead, although I must disappoint you that they went away, and with the same David French lack of hairline I can easily prove it, I more than welcome blessing you.
    3. When I was in summer camp, I asked a fellow camper how it was being Jewish and living in Mississippi and he nonchalantly said, "Oh, it's OK, if you don't mind people calling you a 'devil worshipper.'" And with this I can't help making the editorial comment regarding some of the call them Trump voter types, with many of them being our Southern States brothers and sister, if you don't want to be insulted by being called stupid, don't say stupid things?
    4. Recently in a very noisy office environment I was talking to a Black colleague at work and I told him about my sister who is a professional harpist, and he asked me what a professional racist was. After [record scratch] I said, "Huh?!?" to him, we both got a good laugh out of that one.

    Love the podcast!!!! Keep up the great work "you so goyim" David and my 1/4 or 3/8ths sister Sarah who, adapting words of my grandfather, is obviously "living the life of Reilly and O'Isgur"!

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  2. Avatar photo
    Matt Y.

    I don't think banning felons from voting again is unconstitutional ( agree with Sarah here) but I think I agree with David that they should get the right back after they've paid their debt and served their time. I could see an exception for certain crimes though: murder and rape, if they are not given a life sentence and live to survive their prison sentence, I don't feel like they need the right to vote. This might be more likely in Europe though, or other countries where prison sentences tend to be shorter.

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    1. Avatar photo
      Thewalks

      Why isn't disqualification from voting part of the debt to be paid? Should felons also be allowed to serve on a jury?

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    2. Kevingray671

      I think your approach is correct Matt. Banning or restoring the right to vote is more nuanced in practice. And I think just generally referring to "felons" is painting with too broad a brush. This got me looking at what constitutes a felony in Alabama and there are some pretty innocuous Class D felonies that should not result in a lifetime ban from voting.

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  3. Avatar photo
    Matt Y.

    I don't see why stocks would necessarily be cruel and unusual, as long as passersby would be prevented from doing whatever they wanted to the offender (by a barrier or guard?), which would do away with the old excesses of it. It might be unusual right now, but the amendment says "cruel and unusual", not "cruel or unusual". Putting someone in stocks for a couple hours, or perhaps every day for a week (they spend the night in a cell, and the day in stocks) would be basically an adult version of "go stand in the corner and don't move" and could be appropriate for some crimes.

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  4. Dhsavidge1

    One of the more disappointing and frustrating listens in a while. Change the title to "Cruelty. LOL!"

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  5. Kevingray671

    I agree with David regarding reinstating the rights of a person convicted of a felony to vote. Once that person has fulfilled the terms and conditions of their sentence, that person should not be forever barred from voting. This is not just an issue of criminal punishment; it is an issue of disproportionately disenfranchising minorities. I live in Alabama, and black or African American people make up 26.8% of the state's population according to the 2022 census data (https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/AL/PST045222). However, blacks make up 53.1% of Alabama's prison population. You can review the June 2023 statistical report on the Alabama Department of Correction's website. Not all felony convictions in Alabama automatically disqualify a person from voting, and upon completion of a sentence, some felons may reinstate their right to vote. However, the vast majority of that population will either not know they can reinstate their voting rights or will not have access to resources that can assist with reinstatement. Given Alabama's history with voting rights as discussed in Allen v. Milligan last term, the fewer impediments to minorities voting in Alabama the better.

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  6. Scott Skelton

    You did your listeners a disservice by not table setting any of the facts of the Southwest Airlines case. Some have reported the facts as these: " In 2017, after union members attended the Women’s March under a “Southwest Airlines Flight Attendants” banner, Carter sent Facebook messages to the union president containing graphic antiabortion messages. “This is what you supported during your Paid Leave with others at the Women’s MARCH in DC …. You truly are Despicable in so many ways,” Carter wrote in one message accompanying a video of an aborted fetus. After the union president complained, Southwest fired Carter, saying her conduct “crossed the boundaries of acceptable behavior,” was “inappropriate, harassing, and offensive,” and “did not adhere to Southwest policies and guidelines.” An arbitrator found that Southwest had just cause for the firing." There may be other facts but you did not report them. The case is being appealed. By the way, so is the contempt order. The interesting part of this case is that it has the potential to limit employer actions against bad behavior regardless if it has nothing to do with religion as long as the employee can link it to something religious - at least in Judge Starr's court. Also, it didn't take me long to find out that Sarah's husband and Judge Starr were on Ken Paxton's leadership team at the same time. Something I think is worth disclosing even if it didn't color the discussion. Sarah name drops everyone else, why not Judge Starr? (You could play drinking games with the phrase "friend of the pod.") Additionally, I remember long podcast segment on employers forcing diversity training upon employees. You both disapproved of this (and I agreed with you). Why is it different for a Federal Judge?* Forced reeducation is forced reeducation, regardless of who is doing it. Had the Judge ordered a state bar approved ethics CLE, I might view this differently. (BTW is the order to send an email forced speech? Is there a First Amendment issue?) Stick with your instincts not to cover district court cases. There is too much yet to come. * You know the difference between God and a Federal Judge? God doesn't think he's a Federal Judge.

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  7. Avatar photo
    OK Steele

    I’m having a really hard time seeing how one is an adult intelligent enough to get into Northwestern and naïve enough to imagine there was a creed of human being that had horns.

    Like I can remember reading about the holocaust in school and seeing photos of people in camps. Is there a non racist place that one would hear that Jewish people had horns? I just cannot comprehend this.

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  8. Avatar photo
    Twestberg

    As Sarah and David were disagreeing about voting rights for felons, I noticed I... agreed with both, or at least found both convincing. It's a great feeling to have your mind changed (even if not deeply; I confess I don't have strong feelings on either side of the issues).
    Thank you for good discussions which actually address each others' arguments.

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  9. Ed Kless

    Two quick hits:

    1. The differences in the start and finish of the school year between the northern and southern parts of the country goes back to our agricultural roots. In short, the kids were needed for the harvest and those happen at different times depending on latitude.

    2. I would curious to know the AO take on criminals being given a choice of punishment especially if one of the choices is corporal. For example, five years in prison OR ten lashes? As Jonah would say, I think there is a defensible position that might even include a reduction in both recidivism and long-term criminal behavior. If someone were to choose a caning instead of incarceration they might avoid making further social connections with other criminals while in prison.

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  10. BC Rhino

    Listened to this today while walking, and Sarah’s comment about the question being “who decides?” between a legislature or the courts (on felon voting) caught my attention. I viewed her thoughts favorably.

    Then she got to talking about efforts to bring back older methods of execution - specifically the firing squad, because it it was less cruel under the 8th/14th amendments. But then I think she said that some how, the condemned person should be allowed to raise such a claim, and I think she said - allowing the condemned to choose the method.

    Again - who decides the method? The serial child rapist-murderer or the legislature?

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