Fallout of Kansas Rejecting Abortion Amendment

Sarah, David, Steve and Jonah are back for an action-packed show today including the primary ...

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Sarah, David, Steve and Jonah are back for an action-packed show today including the primary elections, Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s visit to Taiwan, and the demise of al-Qaeda leader Ayman Al-Zawahiri on Sunday. Will tensions over abortion issues cause bigger voter turnouts in the future? Plus: The Senate overwhelmingly voted to approve Sweden and Finland for acceptance into NATO on Wednesday with a lone dissent from Sen. Josh Hawley.

Show Notes:

–The Sweep: What We Learned

–TMD: Another Blockbuster Primaries Tuesday

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  1. Keith Schooley

    I agree with the guys over against Sarah (unusual!) regarding the cynical ploy of the Democrats pumping Gibbs to get an easier-to-defeat opponent, but I don't think anyone framed it the way I would. The problem is the recent development of the Never Ending Campaign, at the expense of actual governance.

    The major problem, as Jonah has said in other contexts, is that both political parties are acting as though they are just one election away from being able to govern unilaterally and give their most diehard supporters everything they want (and also one election away from losing everything and ending America As We Know It.) In this scenario, absolutely everything necessary to win an election is fair game. If all Republicans are The Devil, then it makes sense to promote the easiest devil to beat. But this also makes nonsense of the Left's carping about what Republicans *should have done,* since the Republicans are playing the same game and doing absolutely everything they think they need to do to win.

    Neither side is campaigning as though they actually had to govern alongside fellow Americans with different political convictions. Neither party is saying, "Of course we want to win, but in the races we lose, we'd like to have reasonable opponents to try to work with."

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  2. Nisim Nesimov

    For the record, as a Michigander, the correct pronunciation of Pete Meijer’s name is 100% “Meyer,” but almost every Michigander I know calls the store chain “Meijer’s” because Michiganders have a weird thing about adding an “apostrophe s” where it doesn’t belong. That is all.

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    Pat @ Tavi Hall

    I've been on vacation so I'm coming in late, but I think that the stupid laws passed in other states were likely to have suppressed the pro life vote.

    I'm likely a pro life fringe type, but I might not have voted to get rid of this because there have been so many terrible laws passed this far.

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  4. Ramona Head

    I think Sarah and David to a lesser extent we’re very cold hearted in re to the conversation about Alito’s speech in Rome. Sarah said that far left opinion pieces that objected to his joke made the argument along the lines, “you’re (Alito) taking away rights from millions of women many of whom will die.” And then Sarah were extremely flip about it and said, “gimme a break.” I think Sarah had in mind ectopic pregnancy which in her own case was life threatening but did not require emergency surgery luckily. But women will die as a result of Dobbs— some number of the youngest and more vulnerable girls and women in states without legal abortion services will seek black market abortions and perish as a result. According to the CDC, in 1972, shortly after Roe, at least 39 women died of illegal or self-induced abortion. While anyone can feel free to downplay the number of deaths that will occur and/or argue in favor of the Dobbs decision in spite of it, one must acknowledge the grim reality, if only to say what a shame it is. Especially as a Christian…

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      Sarah Isgur vertical-nib Author

      That may well be. But saying it as a fact rather than as a possibility—which is what the article in question did— isn’t reporting. There’s just no evidence to state that as a fact.

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      1. Ramona Head

        I suppose you have a specific piece of bad reporting in mind. On the pod, you cited “op-ed and opinion pieces from far left websites.” Not far left reporting, but okay. Sure. I’m not here to defend sloppy reporting. If your stance then is that facts consistently true in this country pre-Roe are not given within some margin post-Roe— or can’t at least be assumed in the moral calculation of a powerful man’s bad joke— then that is fair enough. I disagree but I accept it! Here’s hoping! Thanks!

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    WKDawson

    I'm certainly more of a liberal here in this venue, but I'm pretty sure, were I still a Michigander (I was born there), I probably would have voted for Peter Meijer out of solidarity if there were any way that I could. (I don't recall how they work those things out in MI.) The real problem is that there were not enough principled people like Peter Meijer in the Republican party that showed that kind of courage.

    The fact that he showed a sense of conscience in a time of severe testing is a mark of his character that will aid him in many places in the long run. I don't think this is the end of him per se, though maybe on the short term in this ridiculous world we've created in Washington, it appears to be.

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  6. Lisa Gilbert

    I testified in favor of the Kansas Amendment in 2020 and 2021. I never liked the wording. However, originally the language was different, saying except “including exceptions for cases of rape and incest and the life of the mother.” But some conservative folks wanted future options to include the option of limitations for incest and rape, so it was apparently softened to “account for circumstances…” making it seem like the goal was to ban abortion in all three situations.

    A bit of background though. Dr Tiller performed late term abortions from 1975-2009 when he was murdered (in a church) here in Wichita. Kansas did restrict abortion to 22 weeks during his years, but made many exceptions and he took full advantage of these. He also had 19 misdemeanors against him in 2007 for financial dealings with the second physician supposed to endorse that that woman’s health was the reason for terminating her viable healthy fetus.

    I’m 2015, Kansas attempted something like a 15 week limit by banning D&E abortions (Dismemberment), which is done between 14-24 weeks, but this law was immediately stayed and went to the SC, who ultimately said that women have a “right”
    to abortion based on previously unknown language in the Constitution. This placed all current abortion regulation in constitutional jeapordy since they were previously placed before this “right” was discovered. Then the clinic safety standards law was shot down six months ago, based on this “right”, (despite it being placed due to appalling conditions at an abortion facility in Kansas City under Dr Rajanna); this confirms to me that current regulations are at risk.

    The Amendment was then presented by media as extreme and they didn’t explain how current laws have no constitutional grounding anymore and only need to be challenged in court to override them.

    Also, there was the major case of the 10 year old victim of rape, and many concerns about abortion laws causing confusion in obstetrical care, including ectopic management and previable PPROM.

    I agree fully that Kansans don’t want more drama. Many are still aware of Tiller being murdered and the Summer of Mercy. Many also fear that abortion after rape and incest would be limited (I guess never mind about the innocent baby?) or worse, the future laws would i the health or wellbeing of the mother. So I really think the recent high profile media cases and all the local media hype about the Amendment closed the deal to Vote No.

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    Rev Snow

    Been catching up all my Dispatch pods and several of them touched on the Kansas abortion referendum. I'm a bit surprised that in all the analysis no one has brought up Wichita, Kansas as the center of the abortion debate in 1991. George Tiller, Randall Terry, Operation Rescue, etc. etc. Kansas has been through the highest dramas the abortion issue can deliver. Even after more than 30 years, I imagine that has an impact at least as great as "Hey, they've got a Democrat governor".

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    ed74siasl

    Is there a steel man argument for democrats boosting awful Republicans to make sure no one forgets how serious the possibility of the terrible candidates winning, ie that Republicans will seriously vote for these nutters, see what happened in this other election? You MUST turn out to stop it.
    Sort of like handing the lunatic a megaphone, rather than having him removed without disruption?
    "Oh, you think the election was stolen by Jewish space lasers from beyond the grave in Venezuela with secret Chinese bamboo ballots? By all means, tell everyone."
    IE it's easier to convince the world Republicans will elect nuts if we help them do it.

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  9. C.Appel07

    Anecdotal, but if you’re looking at a specific voter demographic who’s going to turn out solely for abortion, it’s 20/30-something college educated women. My social circle isn’t politically involved whatsoever (vote in presidential, but definitely not primaries or midterms,) but they’re lighting up their Instagram stories with fancy graphics about abortion rights and will absolutely show up to polls for this issue specifically.

    They live in urban where they don’t drive or see gas prices, they couldn’t tell you who the heck Joe Manchin is, but they do “know” with absolute certainty that Brett Kavanaugh is a sexist monster and ACB wants them to live in the Handmaid’s Tale.

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    Witt Case

    I think the majority of voters will vote for no abortion laws over extreme bans. Especially if put to the people. It’s not that we love abortion. It’s not that the majority even want abortions at large. The problem is the alternative or Idaho style laws that leave medical interventions truly in question, a place bereft of rape and incest exceptions. Of choosing between that and no ban, many if not most lean to no ban. Even if they’d vote for a 15 or 20 week ban with exceptions.

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