Nerds with Strong Opinions

In a special edition of the podcast, David interviews his former colleague Greg Lukianoff, president ...

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In a special edition of the podcast, David interviews his former colleague Greg Lukianoff, president of the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education. The two discuss the state of free speech on college campuses and why it’s not just a higher education issue, but one that also impacts workforces and the United States in general. And of course, lacking Sarah’s moderating influence, there are also some (relatively minor) descents into nerdery over Star Trek.

Show Notes:

–The Coddling of the American Mind: How Good Intentions and Bad Ideas Are Setting Up a Generation for Failure

–Scholars Under Fire Database

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  1. Mrjsfisher

    Wondering how much the shift towards treating students as “customers” of higher education, and charging them exponentially more for the service, has led to the sort of “Karen”-esque parade of students “talking to the manager” when they dislike an opinion, assertion, speaker, or professor. Would seem like a return to students being privileged for the very fact of being on campus, and the hopeful gratitude that would engender, might change the dynamic at issue. Maybe colleges have only themselves to blame for jacking up prices and turning to the student consumer model. Purdue seems the only institute of higher learning to jettison this model.

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  2. Rob

    Listening to what David and Greg had to say about free speech on college campuses as well as the repercussions that faculty and students have faced for microaggressions, etc., I wondered if David saw any connection to the 'CRT' battles going on in lower grades today in both private and public schools. Generally, I think he has been dismissive of people who are concerned even calling it a 'moral panic' if I'm not mistaken. I wouldn't say he and Greg sounded panicked but they certainly seemed concerned with what has been happening on college campuses for the last decade or two. In many schools today, in grades as low as third, kids are being taught that who they are (not just what they say or how they behave) is 'problematic' depending on their skin color (as are their parents), they are being told that they need to accept their 'privilege' and not push back against that idea, faculty are losing their jobs or quitting to escape the 'anti-racism' dogma being pushed on them, administrators seem either to have bought into the truth of the stuff or they are just not speaking up, some teachers are pushing to 'decolonize' math or make it 'less white', etc, etc, etc. Parents are pushing back which is maybe the big difference. College faculty, to listen to Greg and David, have been mostly too timid to do that. I don't think it's a stretch to say these movements are one and the same, whether they have been happening on college campuses for the past ten to 15 years or are now showing up in middle schools across the country. Perhaps some of those kids who were educated at those colleges, especially the 'elite' ones are spreading the wealth of the knowledge they gained while at university now that they are teachers and principals and DEI consultants? Are parents forcefully pushing back against what they see happening in their children's classrooms just gripped by moral panic?

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    Ben Connelly

    David likes Waterworld. Another pop culture hot take… somehow unsurprising, haha.

    I started college in 2014 so I’m in the prime demographic group to experience what Greg and David talked about. Haven’t read the Coddling of the American Mind yet but I plan to soon. Honestly, I went to a public university so it was more reasonable than some other schools. Most people seemed normal. I had friends on both sides and never felt afraid to be a conservative. I even knew ardent Trumpers there. There were a few small incidents (and some big ones that made national news in a different way). But nothing crazy as far as cancel culture goes.

    They’re absolutely right about childhood and schooling in the 2000s and safetyism. I saw plenty of that stuff. Then again, while I had limits on how far I could go, I’m pretty sure I was allowed to play alone outside since maybe 4-5. When I was 12, I could go anywhere I wanted and could transport myself to by bike.

    In my experience, most teenagers are exhausted by all the frenetic scripted activities they are involved in. Most people (at least 10 years ago) liked have unscheduled time and the kids who went from activity to activity were overwhelmed.

    As far as high school sports go: have your kids run cross country. As long as the school isn’t overly restrictive about where students can run. Man, we used to run unsupervised all over town and get into trouble and get up to all kinds of wholesomely dangerous shenanigans. A good antidote to oversupervision.

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    Huddleston, Mark

    Compelling, if depressing, conversation, David. As a now-retired, two-time university president, it really resonated. I can also attest that The Chair is, sadly, spot-on in most respects. I've been in those meetings . . .

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  5. Brendan Bossard

    This fascinating podcast prompted several thoughts. First, your discussion about helicopter parents caused me to reflect on how my wife and I parent our nine-year-old. I would love to let him loose on his own adventures around our neighborhood, but we live in Northeast Philadelphia. We have lots of wonderful neighbors, but enough weirdos lurk in the shadows that we do not let him stray far from our house without supervision. He is not big enough to defend himself if someone sneaks up on him. He is very kind-hearted and sensitive, too, which would make him very susceptible to manipulation by a stranger. His school, however, is providing a very good social environment where he is learning how to set boundaries with gentleness and respect. (It is a private Christian school.) We work closely with them as well as providing lots of opportunities for him to interact with people around town on our own. We also let him experience the consequences of his own mistakes.

    I also found the discussion of free speech issues interesting in light of some of the frat-boy behavior that goes on behind the scenes. The son of a friend of mine recently returned to college dorm life. His roommate had the audacity to tell him to leave the room so that his roommate could have sex with his girlfriend in private. My friend said, "Well, he's gotta learn that that some guys are just like that." (Whoah! Talk about the extreme opposite of helicopter parenting! I hope that my son will have enough spine to say, "No you ain't! I pay to study in this room. You can have sex in the bushes outside." But I digress...) My point is that free speech ultimately means squat when behavior that actually can wreck a student's career, if not life, goes on without a peep because people are afraid to be adjudged too judgemental.

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    1. Mathew A

      Just remember your kid is more likely to be struck by lightning than abused or abducted by a stranger.

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    Rotated Avatar Pic

    I hope that donor starts giving again. Seems like he’s a terrible, no good, very bad guy, if he doesn’t.

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    Tracie

    Listening to this made me appreciate my neglectful parents in new ways.

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    CynthiaW

    Really interesting, especially the parts about all-consuming youth sports and the college-admissions obsession. In my opinion, "The only way to win is not to play."

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    1. Brett C

      The most important things in life existed before the invention of the university.

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        CynthiaW

        To me, the big question many people aren't asking about these situations is, "What am I trying to accomplish?" If you don't know what your own goals are, you can't take realistic steps to achieve them.

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    Carson J.

    Thank you David for having Greg clarify when he said CBT he meant cognitive behavioral therapy. I hope I'm not the only one who has heard a *very* different (NSFW) meaning for that abbreviation.

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  10. Lynn

    Excellent podcast! Great subject and guest. I was encouraged to hear things are changing, albeit slowly. Thank you both!

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