A Libertarian’s Journey to Trump

How to create a Trump voter.

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J.W. Verret, an associate professor at George Mason University, joins Jamie to discuss his recent Wall Street Journal op-ed—entitled “From ‘Never Trump’ to ‘Encore’“—which details how he went from endorsing Joe Biden in 2020, supporting Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis in this year’s GOP primary, and ultimately backing Donald Trump’s reelection.

The Agenda:
—DEI in the military
—Anti-cryptocurrency on the left
—Inflation and a ballooning national debt
—The crisis at the border
—Trump’s threat to our institutions

Show Notes:
—Verret’s profile at George Mason
—Verret’s profile at The Federalist Society

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Comments (154)
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  1. GoldenRuleLover

    So Verret is making assumptions about the US military as a whole based on what his one friend said about one weekend? I find it a little unnerving, but highly educated people can be so gullible.

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  2. Philip.R.M.Hunt

    Trumpers have different reasons, but the common thread is that they are all somewhat delusional.

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  3. Philip.R.M.Hunt

    Shorter Verret: I don't care if Trump burns down the Constitution, the republic, and the rule of law, as long as I can have my regulation-free crypto paradise.

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    Ben Connelly

    This was a good interview. I find it hard to take his position seriously and still found myself understanding his perspective better and even agreeing with a couple of his points, even if I ultimately found his case unpersuasive. The questions were very good.

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  5. ChamaGrande

    Jamie, loved the interview. Especially liked his credentials, his article, and how polite the interview was. And as his arguments fell apart one by one, I liked the conclusion that he was maybe over-indulging his crypto space over other issues. He thinks it's not fair conclusion, but it was fair.

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  6. Jon Kirsch

    I view crypto as the modern version of the tulip craze in Europe back in the 1600s. So to say I was skeptical of Verret from the get-go is an understatement. I have seen people lose their shirt on crypto, and the idea that Verret seems to hold is that optimal monetary policies are more important than a basic functioning form of government.

    I have Trump loving friends and to be honest their arguments are better than this guy’s (which of course doesn’t mean they’re good or hold water). I just really question whether Verret has a good hold on reality in the sense that if his response to Jan 6th and the cultish following that’s persevered ever since is “our institutions are robust, it’s all good, nothing to see here, we can handle Trump part 2” then I think he’s deluding himself on an epic scale.

    So how do you argue and inform deeply self-delusional people? That’s the conundrum.

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  7. Capsaicin

    Great idea to ask intelligent Trump supporters to express their worldviews here--it makes us all do more careful and thoughtful reading, I think. Your questions were fair and pushback on several items was polite and well-done.

    There are also many good criticisms in the comments about what seems to be Verrett's strong vested interest in crypto, and his DeSantis-like straw-man about the extent of DEI in the military. But after looking at Prof. Verrett's bio and Federalist society profile, I feel a bit like disappointed--as if the WSJ pro-Trump article he wrote ended up dictating the polar terms of the argument (Biden, E Warren, regulation bad, Trump bitcoin less-regulation better).

    He's a serious and well-credentialed person--he deserves more time to speak in greater detail about what Biden/Warren admin is getting wrong in his opinion.

    He's not just a bitcoin-fan bro, from the education and bio, he's got a lot more expertise on block chain technologies and the larger ramifications. Time to get him back for another interview on how Trump plus crypto could improve American democracy for everyone!

    Or maybe he has blind sides? How for instance, would the Trump administration be better able to deal with crypto malefactors like Bankmann-Fried and Zhao? Seems like Biden SEC regulators did pretty good in recovering serious $ that in many cases were being used for unsavory purposes (terrorism, weapons purchases, oligarch-wealth-laundering, tax-avoidance).

    Know only rudiments of crypto myself, but filling out my 2023 tax questionaire for my preparer--Did you buy crypto assets, did you transfer crypto assets, and many similar questions, I get the sense that crypto is becoming more and more mainstream for transferring money that does not leave the W2 1099 and bank statement paper trail and hence is very threatening to mainstream banks and the IRS and US Govt. If all the water gets diverted through crypto then he amount of US tax reclamation starts to look like a dried up Lake Mead reservoir. That may mean bigger boats and yachts for the less taxed rich, but it will mean fewer public benefits, national parks, and shared wealth for us hoi polloi.

    Now that Trump is closer to nominee we need more of his 'friends in high places' and 'reluctant endorsers' talking. We need to know the sources of their power: FedSoc, Claremont, Fox media, Putin/christian nationalism. Get them to talk about their plans by sympathetic listening. Jamie does this well, and provokes honest responses that are disconcerting if not slightly horrifying to many of us.Expand full comment

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  8. Freshbiscuit

    It's pretty much impossible to take seriously someone who can't remember who they voted for in 2016 or 2020... I could keep going with the concerns about the fact that this person is (presumably?) a registered voter, but plenty of others in the comments section have done a great job of that. If your goal was to show how unmoored from reality people like this are, you succeeded. Oh, and OF COURSE he is a crypto bro.

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    Harry Paget

    I was eager to have my views challenged with this one, but most of his points were transparently weak and his answers to Jamie's questions barely responsive. Towards the end he seemed to give up even trying to defend his op-ed.

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    Ericjbutcher

    Jamie really undressed Verret here, or rather let him undress himself. This guys arguments for going from never trump to pro trump has more holes then a block of swiss cheese.

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