Capitol Riot Investigation Pushes Forward

Earlier this week marked the six-month anniversary of the January 6 attack on the Capitol, ...

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Earlier this week marked the six-month anniversary of the January 6 attack on the Capitol, but the criminal investigations are only beginning to hit full stride. Scott MacFarlane, a local investigative reporter at NBC4 Washington, who has reported extensively on the aftermath of January 6, joins Sarah and Steve to discuss the status of the ongoing criminal trials. MacFarlane also talks about the increase in threats against members of Congress.

Show Notes:

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  1. Avatar photo
    Angie

    That was informative and love Scott's voice...and the dad jokes..I am a fan too..and puns too
    My dad told them, but, I can't remember most of the other than the punch lines...he was a pretty funny guy
    He also convinced us that dates were really fried grasshoppers ( I suspect so we wouldn't eat them) and that he could remove his thumb from his hand with magic...lol

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  2. IamJACKSventedSPLEEN

    I know Steve, Jonah, and the Dispatch staff already know that I feel this way, but after a long week of reviewing content across all The Dispatch properties, I feel there is WAY too much focus on January 6th. Sorry to be a broken record folks, but it needs to be said.

    As an anti-Trump conservative who favors classical liberal values and Reaganeque principles, I think the way to move forward is for the factions of the Republican Party to come together, put the past aside and work hard to elect a leader that can unify the party and remove Democrats from power wherever possible.

    Will that require some compromises that will feel dirty? Absolutely, Yes.

    What's the alternative? Our kids being involuntarily indoctrinated in CRT-based history, unions running the show in more and more sectors, retreat from the world ala this embarrassing pullout in Afghanistan, runaway inflation, high unemployment, global collusion to tax businesses into submission, and trillions of dollars in spending that will expand the welfare state to the point of COMPLETE abject absurdity - with no end in sight. Oh, and capitulation to China.

    The continual and excessive (in my view) focus on January 6th, as bad as it was, must end if there is going to be a reconciliation on the right. I supported impeaching and removing Trump to prevent him from running again, but since that didn't happen, we need to pursue a path back to power quickly. The Dispatch editors seem focused on stoking and rooting for a protracted civil war, that will likely result in leftist governance for a decade. To me, that's unacceptable. You work with the voters you have, not the voters you want. If the best conservatives can root for is a center-left coalition that keeps Trumpists out, I say that's not enough to reverse the damage being done by Biden's term and Democrats in congress.

    Let's focus on fighting the left, put the schism in the Republican party to the side, and fight the real enemy - the growing and already pervasive dominance of The Left in the United States. Let's stop making a point, and start making a difference.

    Peace.

    Again, sorry Steve and Jonah, but I continue to feel you're on the wrong path here, and I hope you have it in you to accept respectful dissent from your current editorial approach.

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    1. Icarus213

      You expressed my thoughts exactly. I'm also an anti-Trump conservative, and while I completely sympathize with The Dispatch crew's pursuit of truth and justice (because, yes, Jan 6 was horrible, and yes, they are right about all this), I feel like they think that if we really look at the events of that day in depth and detail, there is going to be a moment when the conservative base truly *gets it* and then we can all heal and move on and do better. Unfortunately, that isn't going to happen. My parents are 100% into the Stolen Election narrative and believe Jan 6 was all Antifa, and that is that. They believe it because they want to, and having someone from NBC on to talk more about Disturbing Developments of Violence on the Right isn't helping; it's making it worse. Because they know that this level of treatment is never going to be applied to the Mostly Peaceful Riots of COVID summer, and they are correct about that. (And yes, yes, I know an attack on the Capital is worse, but that's not the point). The point is, focusing on Bad Things is now tribal- it doesn't help to fix the Bad Things, it only alienates people who want to focus on those Bad Things on the other side.

      Most importantly, who are these people on trial? The 3% Club? The Oath Keepers? I've never heard of these people until January 6th. They need to be isolated and alienated from the political Right- we shouldn't make them martyrs to the cause. When the guest pointed out that most people aren't aware of the trials going on right now, I thought, "Good." They should be forgotten, not centered as examples of the True Right. I know The Dispatch crew thinks that more focus on them will horrify us and make us shun them, but I fear it will have the opposite effect on a base that is marinating in grievance.

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    Jason Gibson

    What a voice…..when Scott started talking I thought he was computer generated algorithm

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    1. Icarus213

      I had the same thought, but I found it kind of unnerving.

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  4. DocHeartless

    Well, boo, I was hoping to see a comment section of dad jokes. Here's one for you guys - and it's a bar one, Sarah!!

    I was sitting at a bar the other day and an enormous grasshopper walks in on two legs. He sits right next to me and orders a beer, as casually as you please. I look over at him and say, "Wow, a talking grasshopper -- you know, they named a drink after you." He says . . . "They named a drink Harold?"

    I really liked this interview both for the style and the change of pace. I get the feeling you guys on the team are desperate for material since we have a, blissfully, boring administration again. I would LOVE to take a deep dive or two on the housing crisis in this country. When I say crisis, I mean that it is ridiculously expensive for the younger generation to acquire housing in hot employment cities. What, if anything, could be done about it? Could national or state politicians promise to make available studios anywhere in the nation for no more than $750 a month. I am a free marketer, so I tend toward market solutions (and rent control is a disaster), but I see NIMBYism as perverting the market by constricting supply, and I'm curious if anything could be done about it. Could the military forcefully build housing in San Francisco and then sell it off?

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    MarqueG68

    Since I'm not spending much time consuming other forms of modern-day infotainment, I would have otherwise missed this. The pod was thus quite informative. Appreciate MacFarlane's reporting, and 'Spatchers for drawing attention to his efforts.

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    BrandonAlleman

    Steve gets high marks from me for his Oath Keepers dad joke. Laughed out loud. Will use if I am ever able to use in context of conversation (not sure I will).

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  7. Avatar photo
    Patrick

    Very informative, thanks Sarah and Steve.

    There’s something very re-assuring about Casey Kasem tracking these criminal cases to resolution.

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    1. Richard Kennedy

      Ha! Good one! I’m waiting for the Top 40 Countdown of Incitement Indictments!

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  8. linda

    I'm wondering how Roger Stone plays into this because he is funding off of the idea that he will be indicted.

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  9. Anonymous

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    1. GregS

      Empirical evidence says that the TD editors have decided to hold all fire on GOP members they believe are only performing Trumplicans. My guess is that this is because they think the GOP is still preferable to the Democrats, and that the performing Trumplicans will prevent the real Trumplicans from destroying the republic once they have power.
      I'd love to be wrong, but the total silence from the core group on Roy, Crenshaw et al is, imo, strong evidence for this.

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      1. GregS

        There was a reply to my comment from Aylene that appears to have disappeared, or been deleted, asking why, if I hold the editors in contempt, I am a subscriber.

        So let me clarify: I do *not* hold the editors in contempt. I think they are good smart people acting in good faith. That's why I am here. I disagree with some of their positions and agree with others. I particularly disagree with them in whether having the current GOP obtain any measure of power is a good thing or not. And I think they have a blind spot for the irredeemable actions of some of the people in the GOP because they are personally acquainted with these people, and consider them friends. An example is Jonah's attitude towards Gallagher and Crenshaw or Sarah's attitude towards Chip Roy. Another example is Jonah's recent comments about Tucker (something along the lines of "I consider him a friend and he's a good person"). I'm sorry, a guy who demagogues about the "great replacement" is not a good person. I don't care if he's nice to his kids and his TV persona is only an act.

        Anyway, hope that helps clarify my position. Just as someone complaining about America's actions doesn't mean they hold the countryin contempt or should renounce citizenship, the fact that I complain about the editors doesn't mean I hold them in contempt or don't value their writing.

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      2. Anonymous

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        1. GregS

          They're still partisans in the end. And for all their expressed horror at 1/6, they still think that a GOP in power (even one made of McCarthy, McConnell, nd Graham, those stalwarts who stood up to Trump when the moment called for it, /sarc) will do better things than Democrats.

          Old habits die hard - let's just hope the country survives.

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  10. Avatar photo
    Tyler

    Not the best interview by the Dispatch. Scott MacFarlane sounds just like what he is, an investigative reporter for local TV news. That position and the way he delivered his reporting did not lend a great deal of credibility to the story, which is a really important one. There was a lot of "color" (for example; the Gadsden flag 'revolutionary' comment was a throwaway, but a little bizarre) in the way he described the cases and seemed less interested in really digging into details and more about sharing the most sensational parts of the story.

    The most important example seems to be the fact he takes both prosecutors and defendants at their words. Anyone with any knowledge of these right wing militia groups knows there is a lot of hot air and grandstanding on online forums. Elaborate plans are discussed often and nothing come from most of them. This has always been an issue for federal investigators and prosecutors. How much of these plans were real vs hot air that came somewhat to fruition by happenstance? That is a serious question that needs a real in-depth answer.

    This situation is a serious one that deserves continued deep investigation, but because the cast of charters is bizarre and over the top often it can be too easy to focus on the antics at the expense of substance. I hope the Dispatch continues talking about January 6th, the discussion on the 6th was fantastic, but this follow up was sub-par.

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    1. GregS

      He's one man and there are 500 cases. His investigations consist of reading and parsing the court filings in all these cases. He's not going out and interviewing defendants or their associates - the FBI and DOJ are doing that. His reporting reflects this mode of investigation.

      Second, it is quitebckear from your comments that you think these people weren't "really" serious because they had no guns.
      Consider this - if they'd had guns, the capital police would have started shooting far far sooner. As such, the police shot one person the whole time. Their actions combined with the phone calls from Giuliani to Senators point to the real plan - to delay the certification of the EC votes past January 6th, and then either (1) to make additional bogus arguments that the Electoral count act requires certification to be done January 6th and so completing it on January 7th would be illegal, or (2) successfully pressuring additional Senators or state legislatures to object, attempt to withdraw their votes, and generally throw the system into utter chaos, thereby freezing the transfer of power for a bit longer.

      There is no defense for any of this.
      I have zero sympathy for Steve's position that he blames Pelosi for being partisan in the beginning. Really? The GOP and Kevin McCarthy just tried to overturn democracy and Pelosi was supposed to give them equal say in investigating themselves? Ridiculous.
      Their personal acquaintance with some of these people has blinded them to the fact that McCarthy, McConnell and their ilk have decided that fascism is acceptable if it brings them power. They, and the right wing media that continues to push this- like Tucker and Hannity and Levin - are irredeemable.

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      1. GregS

        To clarify, in the following statement, by "they" I was refering to McCarthy et al, not the editors of TD. "They, and the right wing media that continues to push this- like Tucker and Hannity and Levin - are irredeemable"

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        Tyler

        A real investigative journalist would follow up on the important cases. Many of these cases are of people milling about. Who cares? What I want to know is how truly coordinated this was and for a serious journalist to build a really compelling story that this was a real planned attack or that this just a bunch of idiots. I have yet to find anyone who builds a really compelling case in either direction. There seems to be a lack of curiosity about these events. It is almost like journalist both right and left don’t want to ask questions for fear of the answers.

        Its obvious they wanted a protest with the aim of the protest to delay the results. That doesn’t say one way or another if the plan was to take and hold the Capitol as has been suggested.

        We saw this around 9/11 when every “plot” was taken seriously, even when they were absurd and nonsensical. Those who were charged with defending the Capitol got caught with their pants down so there will be a push to make those who broke in seem as competent and dangerous as possible to save face. For that reason you can’t take court reports at face value. They need to be investigated independently and tested by journalists.

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        1. GregS

          So basically you think Mr. MacFarlane is not a "real investigative reporter" because he's not doing things the way you would. Great.
          The lack of curiosity on the right is because they want to memory hole this.
          There is no lack of curiosity on the left - congressional efforts have been stymied by complicit Republicans, but reporters are still working on it. See the work done by NYT so far, and I'm sure there's more coming from other outlets. They don't give you updates until the story is wrapped up and ready - that's quite normal and expected.

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            Tyler

            I judge a person by their work. He is doing basic court reporting, not investigative reporting. That's pretty obvious from the segment.

            I diched by NYT subscription long ago, but if there are some really good investigations going on, then the Dispatch should bring those people on.

            The left and right are both willing to ask questions that support their priors, I don't see a lot of people challenging their priors when talking about this issue.

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    2. DJ

      The Oath Keepers had been making plans since last summer.

      https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/11/right-wing-militias-civil-war/616473/

      Last year reporters were asking Trump about a peaceful transition, he was refusing to answer, and the anti-anti-Trumpers were all accusing anyone who raised the alarm of TDS. Even Sarah admitted a couple weeks ago that she didn't take those questions seriously at the time.

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        Tyler

        Totally missing what I am saying.

        If we are to take seriously the idea that the Oath Keepers are a serious group of serious people and not a bunch of LARPers whose LARP as part of many other factors got out of hand and caused serious damage, we have to test that theory against the facts.

        Look at the article you posted. Every person is armed. This group loves their guns. If they were seriously going to attack and hold the Capitol, then where were all the guns? If there was a serious plan you would think they would have found a way to stash some rifles or at least had some concealed pistols. If they didn't have guns how would they reasonably believe they could hold control?

        A serious journalist would ask these questions and dig into the details to find out why. Do the online plans match what happened in any way? Are those planners really credible or is it bluster? Good journalists go and get details, not just report and repeat what is released by a court.

        This interview had none of that and it made for a lame podcast. The Dispatch usually does a better job at getting people who do that kind of work so it was a major let down.

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        1. DJ

          " If they were seriously going to attack and hold the Capitol, then where were all the guns? "

          If you read the indictments you'd know they had a ton of weapons stashed offsite. They were waiting for Trump to issue an order invoking the insurrection act.

          They initially planned to have weapons with them. The reason they didn't, though, is strict DC gun laws. They feared they would be stopped before they could get to the Capitol.

          In other words, gun control *worked."

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            Tyler

            So? Having lots of weapons off site is kind of inconsequential and sounds like a bit of fluff in the prosecution’s case. It has no material bearing on the events at the Capitol. Now if they say had trucks loaded with weapons ready to move at notice, and there is evidence of that, the story now changes. This information is important and is the job of investigative journalists.

            Again, back to my main point. A little serious investigation beyond just court reporting would tell us all a lot more.

            I would love to see someone break down the supposed plans and see how realistic they sound and compare them to the actual events and evidence. That would be massively insightful and compelling.

            Instead we got a lame court reporter doing the nightly local news.

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