Freudian Quips

No one takes Jung seriously.

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Jonah’s in full fanboy mode on today’s long-anticipated Remnant. His guest is Paul Bloom—respected psychologist, prolific author, and noted body double for Al Gore and soundalike for Donald Sutherland—who’s back on the program at last to answer all of Jonah’s burning questions about human behavior and the mind. How should we feel about Freud? Who should decide what issues are taboo? And are people born with an innate political orientation? Viking babies and sci-fi aficionados alike will find much to appreciate.

Show Notes:

– Paul’s website

– Paul’s previous Remnant appearance

– Paul’s latest book, Psych: The Story of the Human Mind (now available in paperback)

– Just Babies: The Origins of Good and Evil

– The Sweet Spot: The Pleasures of Suffering and the Search for Meaning

– Jonah: “Speaking Freely About Free Speech”

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Comments (34)
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  1. Avatar photo
    Ben Connelly

    Freud was a quack. Unfortunately in popular culture he is the most widely cited psychologist.

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  2. Avatar photo
    The Bell Tower

    Elections are highly underrated these days. I saw some headline about how America’s sacred right to protest was under threat. No idea about the article but I have thoughts about this foolishness called the right to protest.

    The right to speech and assembly are distinct from this supposedly sacred right to gather in mobs, threaten people, stop traffic, chant inane slogans, glue yourself to priceless works of art or otherwise behave like assholes.

    Sure, you can throw the Boston Tea Party or Martin Luther King in my face but both of those disobedient crowds had something these modern temper tantrums don’t: no recourse. That was the point of their protests. Jim Crow. No taxation without representation. That’s why we have the country we have, so we can peacefully change the power dynamic without violence.

    Every time I see these babies gathering in mobs, I have to ask: what are they asking for? You want access to abortion? Win elections. You want to ban abortions? Win elections. You want Trump as president? Win elections. You want Palestinians to have a country? Well, go to Gaza and fight the IDF or…. support anti-Semitic jerkoff candidates who think the Jews shouldn’t have a homeland and who will back that rhetoric up by pulling the United States out of its alliance with Israel.

    Maybe there’s a right to peacefully protest but what is it about really? We can’t win through the normal democratic process so we have to throw our legos around the country and disrupt normal business until the average Joe gets sick and tired of being late to work? I don’t see what’s so sacred about that.

    Speech is a right. Assembly is a right. Disruption is a crime and I wish our authorities would punish it more often when it happens.

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      Ben Connelly

      Some protests (MLK’s variety) are justified. Most are incoherent and idiotic. They allow people to vent their feelings without actually accomplishing anything. There are some people who say that protesting fulfills a fundamental human need, which I find very dubious - about as likely as their being a fundamental evolutionary need to play video games and drink Coca Cola.

      If “right to protest” is a get out of jail free card allowing people to stop traffic or deface art without facing consequences, then I want to protest the government by not paying my taxes…

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      1. Avatar photo
        The Bell Tower

        That’s why I say, it’s not like these protestors have no recourse. Vote, run for office, get involved. The American colonists didn’t have that option. Neither did black people in the fifties. Disruption and civil disobedience was justified.

        Now? It’s just babies shaking their baby rattles.

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    2. Iowafocus

      Amen

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    3. Avatar photo
      George.Skinner

      Protest used to be an effective means to signal political opinion. That was in a time before opinion polling. It also used to imply the strength of a cause in its numbers: before e-Mail and internet, especially before near-universal access to telephones, it was a lot harder to build a movement that could turn out thousands of people. Doing so indicated a strong cause backed by a formidable organization.
      Since the Vietnam protests, the technique has been overused and its ubiquity has compromised its effect. Protesters keep trying to ratchet up the intensity of their tactics and occasionally succeed (think of the shock of the 1999 WTO protest in Seattle, or the more recent “Climate Crisis” asininity), but it’s not like MLK’s March on Washington anymore.
      Personally, I believe we need to enforce a line where people can protest but are not allowed to impede the movement of their fellow citizens. Protest all day from the side of the street; stand in the road for 1 minute and you’re breaking the law.

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      1. Avatar photo
        The Bell Tower

        I think that’s a very fair point. I have probably excessive contempt for polling. That’s mostly because of how it’s manipulated by politicians and the media. Building movements is a fair point though.

        I can’t see myself ever joining a protest in the current environment but I don’t want to outlaw it either. I just have unbelievable disdain for 99% of it. There’s a line between trying to make certain voices heard and using mobs as a bullying tactic and it really isn’t an enforceable line.

        However, disruption is indeed enforceable and I don’t can’t if your cause is puppies and bunnies; there should be zero tolerance for disruption of any kind. To me, that’s an easy line to draw.

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        1. Avatar photo
          George.Skinner

          Living in a west coast Canadian city, I’ve seen frequent disruptive protests by various left wing causes. It’s hard to believe they imagine blocking bridges and highways gains them any support, but they’re usually indulged by local politicians and police forces. The trucker protest in Ottawa was thousands of miles away, but drew outrage from the same people who’d give a nod of approval to left wing protests because of their old sympathies to the counter-culture. Same methods, different cause, and a depressing mass of people unable to perceive that the problem is tolerating the methods.

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          1. Avatar photo
            The Bell Tower

            Absolutely.

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  3. NotTheEditor

    This was a great conversation--thank you! So intellectually stimulating but never tiresome, kept me glued to it. Great way to end the year!

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  4. Avatar photo
    Seth B

    Great discussion. As it happens, I just listened to Bloom yesterday on EconTalk and am happy to report that there was no overlap between that discussion and this one, so anyone who wants a second hour of Bloom knows where to go.

    Jonah, you should try reading some Freud. True, he has little to offer to the modern *science* of psychology, but purely as literature, as philosophy, as works of artistic imagination, his writing can be powerful. His last major book, 𝘔𝘰𝘴𝘦𝘴 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘔𝘰𝘯𝘰𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘪𝘴𝘮, for example, is full of fascinating speculation, whether or not any of happens to be true.

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      Ben Connelly

      I listened to that, too! Two great podcasts.

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    Bwithers55

    Sapir-whorf hypothesis

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    1. Avatar photo
      The Bell Tower

      I thought they were gonna talk about Star Trek when I heard it.

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  6. Eoncarlyle

    The discussion about drawing sweeping claims about human nature from questionable, unreplicated studies reminds me of Jesse Singal's work - he would be an excellent across-the-aisle guest

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      Flwehr

      Seconded.

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    Charley Warns

    "With sharp insights and lucid prose, Paul Bloom makes a captivating case that pain and suffering are essential to happiness." I got that from the link (to Amazon) you provided. It would follow that seeking to avoid pain and suffering leads to unhappiness. I'll listen tonight.

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  8. J. Mark Graham

    JONAH IS A TVTROPES.ORG NERD!

    This is simultaneously incredibly shocking and the most obvious thing in the world. I can totally see him wasting hours on that when he should be asleep

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  9. Philebus

    Yikes. If I ever hope to thin out my reading list, I may have to take a long break from The Remnant. I came across a fascinating book a couple of years ago: Steven Pinker / "The Blank Slate". While I have not read any of Paul Bloom's works it may be that the two Author's dovetail each other. From the conversation it seems that may well be.

    Another book sold, and my reading list saga continues.

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    Kevin Johnson

    This is fabulous, Jonah. Big questions addressed with humor and humility, only tangentially tied to our national dumpster fire.

    Next time please explore the “Canada thing” a bit. Having worked as U.S. Consul General in Toronto, a great city, it was amazing to learn more about our neighbor. Beyond cliches and French language weirdness (even at events in Toronto) it is very useful to see day-to-day deep differences disguised by so many similarities.

    It is easy, and necessary, to mock the Trudeauesque excesses, as we do the same to ourselves, and Canucks do scathingly to us, before apologizing. But even more than with Europe, it is important to take seriously the different paths our successful sibling takes rather than just giggle. I prefer U.S. constitutionalism and culture overall, but appreciating them is easier and better when considering real, not parodied, alternatives.

    If ever in Toronto, read the plaque at the U.S. Consulate commemorating the 10th anniversary of 9/11. I’m proud to have written this thank you note to the best neighbors we could hope for…and it’s not just the comedy, but the bravery and basic goodness.

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      Citizen60

      Agreed. Trump declaring Canada a “hostile nation” was a profound insult on both sides of the border.

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