The Gene Genie

The longer I live, the wronger I get to be.

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The last time Razib Khan—a geneticist and author of the Unsupervised Learning Substack—appeared on The Remnant to discuss genes and behavior, Jonah couldn’t resist focusing their conversation exclusively on canines. Today, Razib is finally back to explore the genetic makeup of the world’s second most important animal, human beings. He and Jonah try to keep the science simple and the nudity tasteful as they explore some highfalutin topics: How has our knowledge of genetics evolved over time? What can our genes tell us about our ancestors? And are genes the ultimate predictor of intelligence and disease?

Show Notes:

– Razib’s Substack, Unsupervised Learning

– Razib: “The Longer I Live, the Wronger I Get to Be”

– Razib interviews Chris Stringer

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Comments (29)
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  1. Chuck Almdale

    Great discussion, which I am forwarding to everyone I know.
    It helped clarify a few issues concerning those pesky Khazars. But what about the Alans?

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  2. Randall Briggs

    This was an excellent combination of information and entertainment.

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    Napalaska

    One of the many questions I would like Jonah to ask Razib Khan the next time he’s on The Remnant is his take on the role of AI in his field. Relatedly, it would also be nice to know what he thinks about the idea of punctuated equilibrium, or the “creative leaps into novelty,” that happen to happen after periods of geologic time when nothing really new has occurred for a very long time. Suddenly things appear in the fossil record all at once, all over the world. Well, maybe not exactly like that, but close enough, and the point is, we don’t know exactly, but we do know there’s not enough time involved for it to be chance. What’s up with that?

    And how did life suddenly hyper-morph, or exnihilate, or whatever, into existence out of inert matter, and how can genetics help us understand that?

    And how did the mind, being the interior of both the individual (intentional) and collective (cultural), manage, in a blink of geologic time, to emerge and advance far enough so that individuals have what can only be described as a miraculous and awesome ability to communicate, like what’s happening in the “we space” of the noosphere in this very moment?

    And how can genetics, being (like all hard science) the study of the exteriors of both individuals and the collective, add to our understanding of our interiors, and vice-versa? Look no further than this particular Remnant, where Jonah, whose primary realm is the interiors of people and cultures (incidentally, the left hand side of Ken Wilber’s quadrant model), and Razib Khan, whose primary domain is the exteriors (the right side of Wilber’s model) of the individual and the collective, have a dialogue. The discussion about the dual inheritance model was particularly fascinating. Thank you! Please let’s have more of it.

    At the end of the conversation, talk turned to evolution, and I laughed at the image that came to mind of 12 year-old Jonah with his friends (who have “talked about this since we were kids”) discussing its end.

    As to where evolution is going, Razib confessed that scientists don’t know “exactly” (who does?), but I think that needn’t stop us from taking an educated guess as to its general direction. IMHO, the best guess has been figured out by people way more evolved than me, and it begins with the Big Bang: Matter. Life. Mind. Soul. Spirit. We’re halfway there, and humanity and the biosphere it inhabits are a mess.

    So what is the way forward? Let’s take Yuval Levin’s advice (always a good idea) and find new or at least different frameworks to help guide us. One such approach is based upon the work of the aforementioned Wilber and his unfortunately named (because of other people’s use of the “I” word) Integral theory, which integrates the interior and exterior (left and right) of both the individual and the collective (upper and lower), forming the quadrants alluded to above, and incorporates into the quadrants, among many other things, a developmental perspective across multiple lines (or intelligences).

    Whatever framework(s) we use, it better be good because the status quo, so to speak, is being transgressed, bigly. One reason? Extremely rapid advances in the technological means of production and communication (think the smartphone and the internet, or the upper right and lower right quadrants) have radically altered the nature of the way we relate to each other and our environment, and our interior development (individually and culturally) has not kept pace. The advent of AI and its release into the public domain have only poured accelerant on these fires of change.

    Sudden transformations in the evolutionary timeline can sometimes emerge out of the blue (cue Roxy Music!). Perhaps we are at a moment where we creatively advance into novelty while being conscious of it, for the first time in history. Let’s hang on to our hats and be thankful we belong to The Remnant.

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    Ben Connelly

    In all seriousness, this was absolutely fascinating! The Norman officers! Ancient Rome (natch). The idea that we’re getting frailer, weaker, dumber, etc….

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  5. Brsilverman

    I really enjoyed this podcast, and I think more "sciencey" content would be great (though I admit I'm biased since I'm a practicing scientist). Might I suggest you have Scott Gottlieb back on to talk about healthcare policy, especially with respect to how that impacts innovation? I think that would be really valuable especially with the demagoguing both parties are doing about pharmaceutical companies these days.....

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    Ben Connelly

    Human genetics… the study of human jeans

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    Ben Connelly

    “Genes don’t exist”

    We heard it here first…!

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      Picov Andropov

      Ok now I have to listen to this haha

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  8. Moorechaos

    Enjoyed this one. I think I have a good understanding of the subject and I have Dr Peter Attia's podcast to thank for that. So glad you had this gentleman on.

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      Ben Connelly

      Peter Attia is the best!

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      1. Moorechaos

        He is so informative. Rarely miss his podcasts.

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          Ben Connelly

          Same

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  9. John Matthew IV

    I am not a science guy, which explains why I subscribe to the Remnant but this sciencey podcast was great. Such a nice treat.

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  10. The.Cullens

    Jonah
    Glad to see you finally got a bourbon sponsor.

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