We Can Work It Out

Let's argue about remote work.

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Heroic wonksplainer Scott Lincicome is back on the Remnant to discuss his new book, Empowering the American Worker: Market‐​Based Solutions for Today’s Workforce, which examines what effective pro-worker policies should look like in today’s political climate. Predictably, things get nerdy, as the conversation explores education policy, the demands of urban living, and the great vampire-werewolf debate (tune in for clarification). Where is the government going wrong in its approach to the workforce? Can relying on the free market ever create problems? And how bullish should we be about remote work?

Show Notes:

– Scott’s newsletter, Capitolism

– Scott’s new book, Empowering the American Worker

– Scott previews the book in The Dispatch

– The Remnant with Russ Roberts 

– Ryan Streeter: “Place and the Pursuit of Happiness, Upward Mobility and the American Dream”

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Comments (19)
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  1. Avatar photo
    Marybrown.1960

    Scott said he loves remote work and talked about being able to put his daughter to bed. That’s the issue: Scott already has a family. My daughter graduated college during the pandemic and she is just now going into the office 2-3 days a week. For almost 2 years she was alone in her apt. in a city where she didn’t know anyone else but us (graduated HS and college in 2 other states). It is not great for young people just entering the workforce. Work friends are better than no friends.

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    Katenesvick

    Russ Roberts' podcast re: becoming a vampire is so great. Not sure where werewolves would fit into the thought experiment but I'm sure there's a way.

    Someone needs to check on millennials and Gen Z working fully remote, they're not ok even if they say they are. Corporate America needs to get serious about a hybrid arrangement for part-time in-person.

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    Ben Connelly

    Straight. Into. My. Veins.

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  4. Gern Blansten

    Great podcast! I think Scott had a great point about the social interaction building around work and finding other ways of doing that. I went freelance twenty years ago, and it was something I had to figure out when I did it. One of the hardest work things during the pandemic wasn't working at home, that I was used to. But that I couldn't go work for a couple hours at a Panera or Starbucks… that was a bigger deal than I thought.

    Of course, if those Labor Department guidance rules go through, I won't be able to be a freelancer anymore. I would have loved to hear something about that, too.

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      CynthiaW

      In a similar way, my family has been homeschooling for more than 25 years, so we just shrugged when schools closed. But when my husband was suddenly home full time, and the rest of us couldn't go to the library, or *anywhere*, for a couple of hours, that was a bigger deal than one would think.

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  5. Kyle C

    The most egregious point in this podcast was when Jonah ended with "I'll talk to you next time." And Scott replied with "no you won't, this is a podcast." Simply unacceptable.

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    Anne W (Raw5254)

    ❤️ Liked. And, I wish you would have Mr. Lincicome on more often, including Dispatch Live. I enjoy his writing, but I’m sorry to say, I’m not much into the charts, and sometimes I get a little lost seeing all of the acronyms. This was easy to follow and understand. Also, thank you for continuing to have guests end the podcast with “No you won’t…” That and the Dingo yowl (or whatever you call it) at the beginning make me happy. 😊

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  7. Avatar photo
    Silvertide

    Jonah you are showing your age by criticizing young people like you did in this podcast. Just because young people are comfortable being alone and talking to each other online compared to your generation does not mean they are scared of social interaction. Just because it upsets your norms does not mean there is anything wrong with this generation it's just different. They have more friends across the world then we could ever have dreamed of and thus giving them and those in other nations a better idea of what "others" are like. You may laugh at Facebooks attempt at the meta verse and I think he will fail but eventually this will be a reality and we will be more likely to interact with people online than we will in real life. When that happens anyone who discourages the current generation from experiencing life like there peers will be behind the curve in all things including work.

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    1. Philebus

      Hey. I'm much older than Jonah, so suffer me a bit (no other reason than I'm old). I come from the far away past of letter writers. Imagine sitting down with pen and paper, and considering in depth what you hope to express to a loved one, a friend, a simple business correspondence - it's an effort that helps build skills of expression that are without knee jerk comments; you have time to consider your feelings and and whatever notion is on your mind in any regard. It was always a great joy to receive a letter from a loved one amongst bills and junk. So, if you have a grandparent that is over 60, take the time to compose a hand written letter. To do it well, It's more difficult than you may think. And by-the-way, If I ever choose to invite you to dinner, turn that cell phone off.

      Hand written letters are a beautiful thing - what do you have to hold on to after a phone call.

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        C C Writer

        A handwritten condolence note is a must in my book, especially if you can't make the visitation or services in person. I usually write them inside a card, but I don't expect the message in the card to be the main thing. The work of pulling out of your head what you appreciated about that person's life, and what they meant to you, is an important thing to do. It's not that difficult if you give it some time to emerge. People who complain that they "never know what to say" 1) may not have learned how, but 2) they could try, and they might feel better in the process, almost as much better as the people who will read it. I have taken to drafting my thoughts on the computer because I can polish them before putting pen to paper, and shorten them so they'll fit. But when it's all done, I rewrite it by hand for the recipient. Had to do this last week, and I surprised myself with how well it turned out. That's because I wasn't (wait for it) lazy.

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        1. Philebus

          Cool...try it without the word processor.

          I would never speak disparagingly concerning the habits of young people - change and adapt; rinse and repeat - it's all good in my books; a part of life, done with enthusiasm. But there was a time when things didn't move so quickly. I'm not saying it was better then than now, but there was a slowness - or better still, a 'settling process' that you were restricted to. I could go on, but why? But there still is an appreciation for those that take the extra step (effort) to be cordial. It's good a practice, and it has meaning in life whether one understands the purpose involved, or not - kind of like making making your bed every morning - trust an old person...it's a good thing.

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            C C Writer

            I happen to be an old person too, born in 1951. I have long done multiple drafts and prefer not to mess up a perfectly good card with something that's not quite final as more ideas come to me in the process of writing. People in previous generations used to do this too. Unsent drafts can be found, with cross-outs. So I will do it my way, thank you, because it makes for better results, not merely because I do not care to be given orders as if I don't remember and appreciate how things were.

            By the way, making the bed right away is now known to be a less hygienic practice than letting it air out for an hour or so.

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    2. Avatar photo
      Anne W (Raw5254)

      I’m sorry, but I tend to agree with Jonah, especially when it comes to young people spending a lot of time alone. I have a nephew who would greatly benefit from having a job that required him to go to a physical place instead of working in isolation at home. I’m very worried that he’s going to have real problems at some point.

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  8. Philebus

    Thank you for another good conversation, but I must push back just bit:

    You are far better off if you go to a licensed message therapist - it's not just a back rub, although it can be (Deshaun Watson jokes aside). My daughter is self employed in the field of message therapy. There is a lot of training that goes into obtaining that certification and license. No offense taken, but you're talking out your asses boys (I get it though - it's just a massage). Enough said about that.

    I like the ideas that that Scott has expressed; I share many of his views. Though, yikes. Take healthcare and insurance as an example. Our system (US) is a hodgepodge of patches, band-aids, regulations and bureaucracy that have accumulated since at least the Eisenhower administration; all for some good reason expressed in the moment at the time. And, as it was mentioned in the conversation, tax breaks for those who get their health insurance through their employer has never been fair (can you say subsidy?). It seems to me (in my simple mind) that truly free market health care could be established, but what we have, would need be torn down to the foundations. Imagine the gnashing of teeth; the upset apple carts; the gored oxen. So, end of day: don't see it happening.

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      CynthiaW

      Massage therapy (and other professions) could have certification programs without a state government's saying one couldn't do massage without a license.

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      1. Philebus

        In the state of Kansas a license is not required (it's one of a few). She and her husband tend to move every few years due to his job, and she has had to obtain a license in other states. It's more formality than anything and the fee has not been onerous - the state just wants to see that you're certified.

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          CynthiaW

          That's still the state using the certification to exclude possible workers, rather than the certification's standing alone as an indicator of the person's training.

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          1. Philebus

            When you say 'possible workers' you would need to define that term in relation to their training. Everyone with an idea or a dream is a 'possible worker' (or, just a desire to make money). If you can contract to do a job for a given price, and the only protection a client has is litigation after the fact, well then, a license to practice may be a good thing. Where the problem arises is when a state or municipality requires a greater certification threshold to be licensed - such that the certification is not transportable.

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