Meghan Sullivan on College, God and the Good Life

This week David and Curtis are joined by Meghan Sullivan, philosopher, teacher, and creator of ...

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This week David and Curtis are joined by Meghan Sullivan, philosopher, teacher, and creator of the most popular class at the University of Notre Dame, “God and the Good Life.” As many of us send our kids off to college (or head off to college ourselves), Meghan helps us appreciate the role of education–and of philosophy in particular–in helping students take on the big questions of life.

Show Notes:

–The Good Life Method by Meghan Sullivan and Paul Blaschko

–God and the Good Life (Notre Dame course)

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  1. Ted

    Just listened to the podcast with Meghan Sullivan of Notre Dame, and really enjoyed it. Interested in reading her book. I had one suggestion for improvement, though - let’s not treat attending college as the be-all-and-end-all for our children and our society. Curtis made the normal “To be sure…” comments about not having to attend college to be a productive member of society, but the whole conversation gave the opposite message - attending college is the highest aspiration an 18-year old can have.

    As a parent of four who had two attend college and love it, and two decide it wasn’t for them, it rubbed me the wrong way. And sitting in a country where we’re about to have a bunch of tax-paying working class folks paying off the debt of college graduates, I think it sends the wrong message

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  2. Payette

    I'm a week late in writing this, but this discussion and the subscribers comments were great! I look forward to reading "The Good Life Method!"

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    JonathanRRogers

    Meghan makes a very good point about the importance of the sacrifice many people make to give young family members college educations. I wish someone would have mentioned that it's entirely different when the sacrifice isn't voluntary.

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    ecislaghi

    I was happy to hear David give a shout out to my alma mater, Texas A&M!

    While I graduated almost 20 years ago, I'll note that the culture of Texas A&M is one that emphasizes participation in extracurricular activities (referred to as the "other education"). Of course, a lot of school spirit develops around the athletic teams, especially football.

    Also, with a background as a military school the culture is very patriotic - Aggies have pride in our history as a country as well as a university. Last, while it is a public university, there is a large and active faith community in and around campus.

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  5. Pohl

    Good talk. If I had one question to ask your guest, Is it wise, after just an intro course, to ask a student to articulate an apologia? I am not surprised she gets some weird essays. I would think most would be lackluster as they are a ways off from exposure to the truly transformative glories of metaphysics, say, unless you’re covering a LOT of ground in an intro course.
    My skepticism extends to the peer-led discussion groups. But I’m old-fashioned maybe. I prefer rigorous tradition, which, in this case, is allowing the professor to hand down learning and guide discussions. I don’t want to hear what Sally has to say about Aristotle after reading some excerpts last semester. I don’t pooh-pooh study groups, though, just semi-official, undergrad leaders. I applaud the effort, though. Not bad for, perhaps, the second-best Catholic college.

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      WKDawson

      It would need expert input at some point, but it sounds like an interesting idea. I'm starting to notice that I have some difficulties with the younger generation now because we really don't always speak the same language. These young kids have absorbed some of the ethos of that generation, and they have found some way to express some of the concepts in a way that that generation can grasp.

      It's true that we can, and perhaps should learn their means of expression, but there are limits to what we can do because the relationship as a faculty member is not the same as the student and cannot be the same. It is sort of like imagining watching an old Clint Eastwood movie done in French. Maybe it could be done believably, but the image seems just incongruous for the genre. The students could easily take it in a negative way, like you are mocking them.

      So I am thinking that maybe it works something like a meta-interpreter. Sort of like if you were learning a foreign language like Spanish or German and you needed to learn the subtle difference in the nuance of certain words that are clearly common to both languages.

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      1. Pohl

        Yeah, but the student who has a semester of intro under their belt isn’t much of an interpreter. There’s maybe more to it that wasn’t discussed here. I am open to pedagogical innovation, just skeptical of this one.

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          WKDawson

          Agreed, some skepticism is warranted, especially with philosophy. Often, what is tested in physics and chemistry is procedures and how quickly you recognize the structure of a problem. There, too, true understanding requires intuition, but you cannot test creativity all that well. If "philosophy" is just who and a brief summary of their idea, maybe that is something also semi-procedural. However, really picking apart an idea and examining it deeply, I would think that a beginner rarely has that sort of insight and tenacity, but maybe I am wrong.

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          1. Pohl

            I’m mainly referring to the usual progression of philosophy that culminates in metaphysics and natural theology. These are beyond an intro class, though you can be introduced to the subjects. Perhaps if these freshmen keep it at the level of ethics and educational philosophy, writing a little paper at the end of term is no big deal. It’s interesting that some students revisit their statements. That’s a neat idea.

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    WKDawson

    You may find it hard to believe, but actually, going to a secular community college, and taking philosophy courses, several of which were taught by atheists including a positivist, I actually came to faith. Perhaps the positivist made me realize what I least liked about drinking the codswallop of scientism -- being at the time quite devoted to the work and ambitions of a musician and composer. I met Jesus in those difficult moments and it change my entire direction in life, eventually leading to a career as a scientist. I still am very active in church with my music skills too.

    Of course, I had a __lot__ to learn on the whole concept of what science is, etc., so that changed a lot of things about me too. Basically, we have to understand and respect Isaiah 45:15.

    Anyway, I suppose the usual image is that the kid goes to into college basically normal, and by Thanksgiving, he/she is wearing a nose ring and has written a long screed on "why god is a fraud". Even had all the things set up for the expected picture, but God works in mysterious ways.

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  7. Paula Huston

    I'm a loyal listener to Good Faith--have not missed a single episode and have sent countless links out to friends and relatives--and I can't tell even put into words, David, and Curtis, how grateful I am that you took on this much-needed project. Saturday after Saturday, you are modeling, in public, how two Christians can have a deep, productive, and enlightening conversation about any and every topic and still remain friends and respectful admirers of one another, despite whatever disagreements may arise. Thank you, thank you--and many blessings on both of you for this very good work you are doing on behalf of all of us!

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  8. Dennis Trask

    Delightful conversation. I especially like David's question and background comments about friendship and relationships. Our sons were fortunate to have developed strong and varied relationships at two private liberal arts colleges over the last few years. Each college had well developed liberal arts experiences that promoted academics, introspection and what their place in the world is and can be. Their schooling and lives prior to these experiences prepared them to take advantage of the opportunities. Many colleges have created community service programs as way to promote moral development over the last few decades. While our politics are fraught, there is hope. Dr. Sullivan certainly offers hope along with great energy and the ability to apply philosophy.

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    J. Eric

    Excellent food for thought.
    Thanks

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    Ben Connelly

    Meghan is a fellow Wahoo! No wonder I’m enjoying this episode.

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