The Religion of American Greatness

David talks to Georgetown professor and Bush administration alum Paul Miller about Paul’s new book, ...

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David talks to Georgetown professor and Bush administration alum Paul Miller about Paul’s new book, The Religion of American Greatness: What’s Wrong With Christian Nationalism. Paul defines Christian nationalism, discusses what’s wrong with it theologically, what’s wrong with it politically, and how it invariably leads to conflict and illiberalism. They also discuss Christian underrepresentation in the academy and other elite spaces, including its causes and consequences.

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  1. Avatar photo
    Reed Benet

    This podcast exhibit further excellence! Wow!

    No pressure [ ;-) ] but it, like pretty much everything I listen to and read and learn from TheDispatch, is excellent, and this one outdoes everything else... until the very next TheDispatch podcast I listen to or thing I read, I suspect.

    This podcast specifically has delivered so much clarity and gives me the words and logical argumentation to talk to, hopefully with love, the seemingly so screamingly misguided people out there hopefully unwittingly promoting or adhering to Christian Nationalism.

    Particularly loved the description here of Jesus as the quintessential (my words, said better in the podcast) disruptor.

    Kind of like my (my words, said better in the podcast regarding as an American taking pride regarding D-Day, the battle for Omaha Beach, etc.) reflected glory for Jesus being my fellow Jewish brother, who I think (or presumptuously take credit for) was just doing the Jewish think of speaking truth to power, pointing out inequities/hypocrisies/selfishness/supidities/ephermeralities versus things of true value/truth, etc., etc., etc.

    He knocked over the tables of the money changers in the Temple. And all with such fearlessness! And they (actually we, with the aid of the Romans?) strung (actually nailed) him up for it.

    Now for my pop psychology kind of conspiracy theory, David. Do you wittingly or not wittingly quote the perfect Bible versus regarding most to possibly all the issues you so fluently and well talk and write about?

    Doesn't Leviticus 19:34 ("You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.") just nail the whole issue of the podcast. But you don't quote it because why have an hour long podcast after you relay this?

    David, I for one would love to hear some Biblical exegesis on the matters you are dealing with, particularly dare say when the Bible just nails the issues and shows that too many to often most self-professing Christians simply don't think or act Christian?

    I must admit, even as a "gun loving" Marine, I'm constantly looking for a way to tear down all that is wrong with God, Guns, Guts type stuff that is part and parcel of abhorrent Trumpism, Christian Nationalism, gun manufacturers and defense contractor capture, etc..

    I search in my heart whether there's something malign in this about my view of what is wrong with Christianity and Christians, which I call part and parcel a feature not a bug of Christianity and Christians. Maybe Jews, the perennial strangers in strange lands, are historically the one who take the brunt has to do with my attitude? But said in this excellent podcast, as an example, you can be both Christian nationalist and a well-meaning and not entirely selfish person and advocate for some of the same approaches/policies, so I can walk that tight rope also?

    Isn't Trumpism and Christian Nationalism's greatest weakness its seemingly too often shown screamingly clear unBiblical and unChristian idolatry (which I've heard David semi-frequently discuss)?

    David, start swinging from the Bible? Onward Christian Soldier? Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition?

    Thanks all for the opportunity to work out my issues with myself and the world here amongst my TheDispatch Tribe!

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  2. Tom and Robin Moore

    Hey David, you we're wondering how many listeners had some kind of Bible education in their public schools. My high school did not offer it but the high school across town had some sort of Bible as Literature option. I grew up north of Detroit and that was in the early 80's. The greatest decade, lol. Cheers.

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    Witt Case

    It’s interesting to listen to this as a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Being a member of a faith that’s a majority in one state, and significant minority in the mountain west, is one thing. Especially when it’s now courted to (at least politically) join the coalition on the right.

    Our history and often our current experience is different. The only religious based immigration ban was against us. An extermination order existed until the 1970s.

    I personally experienced hostility and outright violence as a missionary. Outright discrimination for my religion as a soldier.

    All of this came from the right. The detrimental specific actions against me came from Christians. Those I would view as brothers and sisters in Christ that view me as a cult member or heretic.

    Those actions were so much worse and truly consequential compared to defending doctrines and ideas from the left. Blacks and the priesthood. LGBT+ rights. Those discussions can be hard. They can feel unfair the first time. But we have to realize the power that holds compared to actual harm.

    The power of a Christian majority can’t be underestimated.

    This podcast hit a lot of these points. I wish we could have some more diversity of ideas on this podcast and discuss some holy envy. How we can move forward past this?

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  4. Bob McLaughlin

    Great conversation again. Thank you. Here is a touch of irony. I live in KY and grew up in Philly suburbs. Attended 12 interesting years of Catholic school. David saw more of the Bible in 4th grade at his elementary school than I did in 12 years of Catholic education. Even in religion class we never ever touched a Bible. Our Bible was the Baltimore Catechism. That was in 50s/60s. Things have changed. The Bible is now a very important part of my faith journey. Thanks again for all that you do.
    PS I miss Curtis but happy for him that he is getting some time to rest. I hope David does the same. His schedule and output makes me tired.

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  5. Tom Coffman

    Greatly enjoyable. Thanks again for this podcast series; it has certainly become my favorite.

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  6. Faith

    During the late 1950s and 1960s I attended K-12 public schools. Each morning the school day started with Bible reading and prayer. In junior high all students in each first hour class were expected to take turns leading the KJV Bible reading and prayer regardless of religious affiliation. Several students were not protestant or not believers, but they were expected to take their turn reading from the king James and leading prayers.
    In 7th grade I concluded that this was blasphemy and was taking the Lord‘s name in vain. Two kids in particular led my young self to this conclusion. Both were church kids who were on the wild side in 7th grade, cussed and swore every other word, talked about f…ing every girl that walked by, shamed and mistreated kids who were academically “slow” and pretended to be devout when their Bible reading turn came around.

    The whole ordeal was offensive to me back then and still is. The white, conservative, Republican, Protestant bubble is going strong. The open message is “Religious liberty for me but not for thee.” It saddens me to realize that the death, resurrection and accession of Jesus is insufficient for some folks’ security. Instead some seem to place their trust in a bloviating adulterer who trust Putin.

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    1. Alan

      It's not liberty for me and not for thee, it's power for me, and liberty for no one. With power you don’t need liberty, and you end up with a paranoia that all others who seek liberty will eventually get power and be as shitty to you as you were to them. This IMO is what motivates a lot of great replacement types. They never quite articulate what is wrong with others having power, but if you read between the lines it all comes down to “they would obviously be as terrible to us as minorities as we were to them”.

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      1. Faith

        Agreed

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          Reed Benet

          And I think the anti-intellectualism is part and parcel a shield against revealing the hypocrisies.

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    Chany Ockert

    Great point on the voluntary separation of Christians in Christian institutions versus secular institutions.

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  8. Joy

    Another great podcast. As a moderate Democrat the dispatch and other left leaning sites with integrity give me hope for our country. I keep recommending this podcast to my Hannity listening sister, we are semi-estranged.
    I grew up in New Jersey in an all white neighborhood all white school. This was by design, our home was part of a program executed after the war to help provide affordable housing to those who served. Blacks and other minorities were excluded.

    I do not support the radical left or violence on either side, however a little research into widespread discrimination, the remnants of which are plain to see if we open our hearts and minds to the facts, should at least promote some Christian compassion.

    David's comment from another student about never meeting an evangelical could be compared to the many millions of us who grew up in homogenized communities, what if we put ourselves into the shoes of those who had the opposite of that government hand up.
    I don't have answers to the inequality in our country, but the story the right continues to tell about the lazy freeloaders living off the government dole does not seem to take facts and history into consideration.

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    1. Avatar photo
      Reed Benet

      Hello Joy. Love your name. The world needs more of it and you! [Wow, just had a "I dreamed writing this" Deja Vu!] Interesting that you describe TheDispatch as a "left leaning site" when David is a pro life evangelical Christian military vet, all of which I think the data overwhelmingly says at the least leans and at the most screams right. I think I've heard on TD that they are moderate right of center Libertarians, which when I heard it said helped me realize what I am, odd duck-ish and all. When you're talking about "part of a program executed after the war," are you talking about Levittown? Thanks for your comments. Keep being and spreading the j/Joy!

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    CVS

    Paul Miller is fantastic. I read most of his first book on Just War (need to finish) it’s great.

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