Optical Delusion

The Army of the Lord is recruiting.

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David French takes the reins on today’s recording where he hosts GQ correspondent and New York Times Magazine contributor Robert Draper to discuss his new book Weapons of Mass Delusion: When the Republican Party Lost its Mind. Why has the Republican party gone crazy? What’s up with Marjorie Taylor Greene? And what might a Republican House majority look like after the midterms? Stay tuned as David and Robert explore all of this and more on today’s action-packed episode of The Remnant.

Show Notes:

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  1. Djelmore2104

    I agree with Elwood that this is as good a place as any to post a note of deepest sympathy to Jonah, TFJ and Lucy. Your mom (MIL and grandmother) was truly one of a kind. Know that many prayers are being offered up for you and all who loved her. The peace of God be with you.

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  2. Elwood

    Since here’s as good a place as any to post this- Blessings to Jonah’s family given their recent loss.

    He’s mentioned how odd it is to speak into a microphone without seeing us, his listeners. How he feels certain obligations to us.

    The feeling is mutual. Prayers going out to him and his family today.

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    Ed

    Deeply disappointing podcast. One can connect random dots to produce an image that suits one's own prejudices: this one is center-left. The whole message is "Don't vote for these scary people, vote for the Democrats!" The problem is, of course, that whatever depravities and lunacies they have, Melanie Taylor Greene and Herschel Walker would probably represent the views of a significant number of their constituents better than their Democratic opponents would. Hyping conspiracy theories, right or left, is a disservice.

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      JohnF

      I got a different impression from the podcast. The concern I came away with had nothing to do with Democrats vs. Republicans, and everything to do with the dangers of having the fringe take over either party. During the 2020 Democrat Presidential primary, we saw this when the candidates all started trying to "out-woke" each other (thinking that "the base" was represented by the ultra-progressives on Twitter). Whatever you think of Biden, he managed to present himself as "the traditional Democrat". Over the course of a weekend, the party was still strong enough to decide to unite behind him and stop Bernie.

      To my mind, the biggest concern with the GOP right now is that the loudest voices in the Party are not real Republicans or even Conservatives. This would be fine if there was a strong core to the Party that was able to resist this and push these people aside. Unfortunately, the opposite seems to be happening.

      Marjorie Taylor-Greene is in her forties and is in an extremely safe GOP district. Unless she takes on a more prestigious position or takes another job, she's in Congress for the rest of her life and, given her fundraising prowess, she's only going to become more powerful. She is also about to be joined by several like-minded people.

      On a more positive note, Ilhan Omar almost lost her primary.

      When there are only two Parties and at least one of those Parties is being overrun by dangerous lunatics, then sensible people across the political spectrum should take notice.

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        Ed

        Boy, I have trouble with Melanie and Marjorie. I'm pretty sure I don't agree with you, though. The issue of extremes taking over a party is well worth exploring, but there are ample data from both sides. When an interlocutor only refers to one side in his expression of concern, it isn't unreasonable to presume a partisan outlook. Each party also has its own palette of adjectives; I haven't re-listened to the podcast, but I am pretty sure Mr. Draper preferred the left-of-center palette. With regard to Ilhan-Omar's difficulties, there is a self corrective process in both parties, which is another reason not to drink too deeply from the fountain of fear mongering: things always revert to the mean.

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          JohnF

          The guest was there to talk about a book that he's written that looks at the rise of the MAGA movement (and the demise of the traditional GOP). He openly stated that he is left-of-center (although he comes from conservative roots), but his current book is about the GOP (which is why the podcast was about the GOP).

          I don't share your confidence in the self-corrective process. It doesn't seem to be working all that well. Thanks to gerrymandering (on both sides), very few seats are actually competitive anymore when it comes to the general election. Boebert and Greene both beat out sane rational primary competitors. Pryapal and Omar will both be elected with ease in their districts.

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    JohnF

    Well, that was depressing.

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  5. Very Old Grumpy Guy

    I was not always a "none" and even went to CCD. The theology of my youth did not dwell on Satan, although He existed. The focus of my religious training was entirely on the nature and teachings of Jesus Christ - with an emphasis on the imperfect nature of humans, forgiveness, and especially God's SOLE role as the judge of humans. I assume that many raised in a variety of Christian theologies would have touched on similar points. If this is the case, I fail to see how the majority of Christendom DOES NOT perceive Trump, and his theological supporters, as doing Satan's work? Is he not the ultimate deceiver? As a none I still attempt to live by Christ's teachings. How did Christendom get it ALL so wrong?

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  6. Nrgaska

    I was very sceptical when I saw GQ correspondent and New York Times Magazine contributor in the show description. I listened for about 30 minutes and then turned it off. I really do not need to hear another liberal give me some explanation as to what is wrong with the GOP. I have heard it more times than I can count. I find it boring at this point. I am fully aware of all the crazily the GOP has to offer these days. Give me something new, please.

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      Synchronize Your Dogmas (Bill B)

      I'm always listening to yet another conservative all the time on stuff more times than I can count... sometimes I even learn something new.

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    Ben Connelly

    Jonah did the “No you won’t!” I can’t wait for the Ruminant where he says it to himself at the end.

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  8. Linilulu

    Along time ago, in a time far away, I was invited to a political dinner put on by the GOP grassroots. At that time my husband held a high position in state GOP structure and he got that place because of his work in the Reagan era but this was down the road from Reagan. These were the heavy lifters of the party. These were the small money contributors, the door knockers, the phone callers.
    Right away I notice model airplanes hanging from the ceiling. Massive amounts of plastic black helicopter models as the decorations. They were the principle topic of conversation along with the nefarious FEMA conspiracy. Ok, then. Where's the food.
    Several months later my homeschool group scheduled a field trip to a FEMA facility. It's quite close to the homes of the group and so it made sense. After the nice lady talked about saving lives to the children and all about what they do (they actually had tanks on the premises) some moms went crazy on the PR woman asking her about plans to round them all up for some purpose never really explained. I think this morphed into the Deep State.
    This all started years before Trump. Ron Paul was a big influence. Trump just swooped in and monetized it.

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    1. Pohl

      On the flip side, I’ve had liberal friends who thought Palin was going to usher in “camps” and a theocracy. Can’t fix stupid or partisan. But I repeat myself.

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        Synchronize Your Dogmas (Bill B)

        Any evidence that if left to herself she wouldn't have tried? 😏

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        1. Pohl

          I’ll assume that’s rhetorical.

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            Synchronize Your Dogmas (Bill B)

            😂

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    Jim McC

    I thought this was a very interesting discussion, and illuminating in many parts. I'd only offer the suggestion that David, who is awesome on this topic generally, really doesn't ever like to push back against interviewees, which would be helpful at points to keep things on track, especially when diagnosing the origins of our current crisis.

    I would argue that the strain of "defeat the evil politicians on the other side" begins much earlier than 1993, and did not start with the GOP. Draper is surely right that politicians have always said unkind things about their opponents, but the genuine belief that one's opponents are evil, not just wrong, was rife in the Democratic base in the Reagan years (see: Kennedy's Bork speech as the example par excellence), and the amoral excuse-making for pragmatic reasons can be found among certain prominent feminists, for example, in the Clinton years. As someone who has lived his whole life in blue states and blue circles, I think the genuine vituperation of conservatives reflected a widely-shared view amongst, perhaps not the majority of Dems, but a large and influential portion of their base. Having not been immersed in red America, i probably don't have the same understanding of it David does, so maybe I'm just not aware of how much of this was going on in the 80s from proto-Trumpists, but I know for a fact it was directed rightward from the left.

    Thus have i been disheartened by seeing the GOP base follow suit, and I applaud the willingness to tell the story factually and call out the worst and most delusional behavior on the right, much of which most certainly predates January 6th or even Trump. But Draper (in the interview, at least; I haven't read the book itself) seems to be telling a morality tale in which tribalism, invective, irrational hatred and disrespect for norms and manners is purely a phenomenon of conservatives. Maybe David agrees with that, but I feel like that needed a little more pushback.

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      Synchronize Your Dogmas (Bill B)

      That latter observation about the Republican Party was something recognized as far back as 2012 by Mann and Ornstein. It doesn't mean the Democrats are angels but one really can't draw an equivalency. As they put it quite succinctly back then; "Let’s Just Say It: The Republicans are the Problem". Apparently it wasn't enough to prevent Trump.

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        Jim McC

        Ah yes- the ideological extremists in the 2012 GOP who decried big government, campaigned for less spending ,championed free trade, and nominated Mitt Romney for president. I certainly can see the straight line drawn from that to the Trump candidacy. So rigid in their ideologies they abandoned them all within the space of 3 years.

        With all due respect to the opinion of two guys who wrote a book ten years ago, you need to show your work a bit more if you want to make the argument. Forget going back to Reagan or Gingrich- the insanity of the Bush years, in which the president who worked across the aisle on initiatives like No Child Left Behind and Medicare part D (both of which I opposed) was decried by those same people as a war criminal and frequently likened to Hitler. Let's recall that Clinton and Gingrich worked together quite effectively to produce legislative results in the late 90s in areas where compromise could be reached.

        The point here is that the impetus behind polarization and reflexive partisanship is not simply a story of one party moving "rightward" (as though industrial policy is a rightward move), but each party reacting to the incentives created by the Big Sort and partisan gerrymandering to decrease competitiveness in most districts, thus rewarding the most extreme voices. It may be comforting to tell yourself repeatedly that it's all the other guys' fault, but it amounts to fiddling while Rome burns.

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          Synchronize Your Dogmas (Bill B)

          Well, there's been quite a few books written by Republican officials, cabinet officials, journalists, historians and Republican strategists that are a helluva lot closer to my interpretation than yours. And of course those "two guys" are Congressional scholars that were being taught in college classes on American government back in the early 80's. I know because I was in those classes.

          You're on a site that not only recognizes the abyss that Republicans have fallen into but was founded because of it. That you want to rinse the stink off a party that went gradually insane and to lay off those pathologies on mutual "reflexive partisanship" is dodgy at best. The catalyst for that hyper-partisanship had it's origins a few decades back and it's not higher order math to figure out where it originated.

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            Jim McC

            I see- you don't have actual arguments, just appeals to authority; since those are worthless in an actual debate, I guess it's a concession that you can't quire articulate the argument. I'm quite certain the vast majority of Republican officials, et al, whether they've written books or not, would be a helluva lot closer to my interpretation, but sure, you can cite your favored scholars and former officials. You can also cite Nobel Prize winner Paul Krugman to buttress your economic worldview, but you'd still be wrong 90% of the time. That's why you have to do your own thinking.

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  10. Matthew

    I think mainstream journalists need to reflect on their own role in the degradation of political discourse. I think the criticisms of what the Republican Party has become are on point, but, people are going to radicalize and believe lies of their own agency, and QAnon--or even people "just asking questions" about election integrity--are full of it, but I also have a strong distrust for legacy media institutions.

    I'm a center right guy who lives Mitt Romney and Pete Meijer and very reluctantly voted for both Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden because of my disdain for the MAGA crowd (and I'd do it again), but it's very difficult for me not to see most major outlets as enthusiastically carrying water for Democrats. CNN and NPR are outright left-wing propaganda outfits. The New York Times is I think comitted to the truth and honest reporting, but I still get the impression that outside of Ross Douthat, none of their staff have ever had more than a passing conversation with an actual conservative, and have no understanding of what conservatism, or any desire to develop that understanding. I will partake in both-sidesing here: Greene's description of Democrats as godless communists is false and destructive, but the mainstream media's depiction of conservatives as theocratic bigots is too. I think in most mainstream newsroom, being pro-life is an unspeakably evil point of view--given that that abortion has been a linchpin issue for conservatives for decades, it's no wonder even sensible conservatives distrust these media outlets.

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