The Veil of Ruminance

Jonah returns to ruminate on a smorgasbord of things this week: injecting bleach to cure ...

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Jonah returns to ruminate on a smorgasbord of things this week: injecting bleach to cure COVID-19 (big if true!), an extended meditation on John Rawls’ “veil of ignorance,” how the veil is nonsensical from the pro-life position, and the difference between “social justice” and a “just society.”


Show Notes:

–Ross’ book on social decadence

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  1. Nicholas Crouse

    I think the disappointment I have with a solo Jonah episode like this is it felt a lot like an audible weekly round-up of stuff I'd already read. It touched on the GFile, on the piece on RadioLab, on the syndicated column. All of which were interesting and worth reading, but which I'd already read. For those that didn't read them, I suspect they liked this a lot but I wish I'd skipped it. If my subscriber bucks converted to a vote mine would be for using the time spent recording these working on prep for a great longform pieces as impactful as the one on the left and the moral equivalent of war. I'd trade 20 of these for one of those. Just an opinion. Great guests this week on the show, happy subscriber here. Any chance of making episodes downloadable from the site?

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    William Hultman

    Always enjoy your podcasts, especially the ones with historians. But saying that more people died in the US due to a virus than in the Vietnam War ignores the number of folks that died in and around Vietnam due to US activities.

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    Birch Barlow

    If I'm leaving a piece of paper for a future generation it won't be a "look how smart I am" sort of thing. Rather a drawing of something useful like how to hunt, fish or make fire (and you're welcome future cave people).

    Didn't know that Guy Benson was a friend...he'd be a great Remnant guest.

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  4. Scott Mc

    Jonah as always a good show and you have to be authentic hence the opening the middle and the end. Thanks for sharing your time and thoughts.

    Ps (I am behind on podcasts and your writings) but have you seen who Newsome has on his latest task force on reopening? Please Ruminate

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    1. Scott Mc

      Jonah - while I like the optimism of changes to each party, I am not sure the changes will make anything better. You point to Immigration, where 70%% of the country agrees on what seems reasonable and/or fair but then Congress does nothing and EO's come with each administration. Because the current CEO, his narrative has pissed off the other party and his "own?" so nothing happens.

      My next meaningless non-informed opinion on what happened (okay didn't) in February, you have 100's of great points I agree with (see joke from Zoom sunday, so time to listen up :) ) I know there is role for the Admin and for the Legislative Branch in how we run and protect our country. Impeachment focus took the only possible responsible party's (Legislative) functioning focus anyway from their responsibilities to the American people for purely partisan reasons (both sides). They continue to work for us if I remember correctly?

      Finally, I enjoyed the part about the stuff that makes a really effective politician - which your examples were wonderful - ideas, values, etc...fall flat without the energy that is hard to find.

      I look around and remain unimpressed and uninspired by almost everyone I have seen. Do the party players only speak to "hearts of their own"? Is there a democrat that will speak to the hearts of individual prosperity/rights/ (what is most important to republican voters)?? Or a republican that will be entrusted to provide protections (not sure what is top democrat voter priority) to the people who cannot do so by themselves without creating class war?

      oops, sorry I was sitting in my car and got rolling.

      love your stuff, I thank Bridget P for the tips. I tell everyone I believe can think to read and listen to your stuff. Keep up the great work!


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  5. Barry Gurnsberg

    Jonah mentioned Radiolab, and I I listened to the latest episode of it. It’s pretty interesting, talks about items that the government decided to save in the 1950s in case there was an atomic attack. Includes the bill of rights, constitution and Declaration of Independence of course, but also the Japanese surrender document, a painting of Lewis and Clark and some other items. One of the hosts said “I think they should have included the Dred Scott decision.” 🤦‍♂️ just thought that was funny (albeit sad) in light of Jonah’s complaint. The rest of the episode is pretty good though, worth a listen.

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  6. Dwarkesh Patel

    Hey Jonah!

    I wanted to let you know that you being honest about Trump helped turn me into a conservative.

    I'm a 19 year old immigrant. My sensibility inclines me towards freedom, reason, and open-ended progress. Ever since I've been politically conscious, I've been unsure about which side better represents my philosophy. The left's turn away heterodoxy and free-market innovation made me uneasy but I could not stand the constant gas-lighting from right wing media figures that tried to convince me that I was the crazy one for finding fault with Trump's deeds.

    With you I first found someone who not only shared my philosophy but applied it honestly to the current political situation. Had it not been for you, I might have condemned the right to intellectual bankruptcy and found comfort with those on the left those who saw as much wrong with Trump as I did.

    Thank you so much for being honest about Trump! Because if you weren't, an impressionable young person like me would never have exposed to a non-cringy conservative worldview.

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    Kevin Johnson

    Great stuff, Jonah. And you don’t sound awkward at all. I’m not on Twitter, so I didn’t see details of your spat with Charlie Cooke. But from your description, I would say I share your irritation with those who wish to leave Trump blameless when he inspires over the top criticism from the press or Internet left. One thing bothers me more, through, and it is another side of this which I think you also get. Like Bill Maher last week, and John Podhoretz on his niche podcast (5 times a week!) I am worried that the left and media can’t let a Trump’s idiocy or even badness stand; they must exaggerate it so much that they may end up helping him. What he said about looking into injecting cleansers was awful, and I saw it live. But by falsely claiming he told citizens to inject cleansers or drink bleach, the press helps him convince voters not paying much attention that ALL criticism of him is false. We don’t want to let Trump slide by normalizing his awful statements and behaviors about serious stuff. But press and commentators who lie or mislead about him, when the truth is bad enough, aren’t helping us. This is true even though you are right that Trump starts it. See you tonight!

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    CynthiaW

    I can't wait to get on the treadmill after church!

    I'm going to be *so* thin if Jonah keeps up this output!

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    Kane Kyle

    Love the Ruminate, Jonah. Keep it up!

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  10. Melissa

    It seems like conceptually these conservative ideas work out in an elegant and cogent way. I like what you're explaining. It seems in practice that the reality of the system doesn't merge with this beautiful theoretical vision. The reality how conservative economics has played out over the last, what, 30 years is that wealth has been concentrated at the top bracket and in many cases, wealth has been redirected upwards. I am a school teacher from North Carolina. A few years ago, I remember reading through the Republican draft version of the tax proposal a few years ago under McCrory because I found it interesting to go through line by line. I remember two random proposals that stood out to me -- decreasing the tax cuts for utilities and reducing the sales tax on yachts. If this system is so elegant, why when it hits the brick wall of reality and practice does it result in such disproportionate and unfair outcomes?

    I live in a "right to work" state where I don't receive Master's degree pay for my Master's in teaching from Brown. The first 8 years of my career I didn't receive COL pay increases because the pay was frozen at whatever bracket you were at.

    Is it possible in the same way a "leftist" is thought to romanticize Marx (though I'm on left leaning and I don't, to my knowledge) that there is a conservative love affair with these ideals that don't play out effectively in practice (or at least, have not yet)?

    I'm not in love with the state. I don't want to be raised by the state. To me, I see these conservative ideas, which when put into practice, look like ropes to cordon off and enrich the upper class.

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    1. ROBERT

      Never fun to read about an experience such as yours. I strongly agree that many things remain far from perfect. But I can't help thinking that you are referencing a corrupt version of the conservative ideal.
      Corruption has and always will exist. And it impacts most of us frequently. For instance I believe that, for the most part, holding national congressional office is no longer about serving the public interest. Rather it is much of a path to personal wealth for the office holder. I see that as corruption. But I would far rather reform the system than replace it with a different one.
      Yes, there are flaws in the system. But it has also created the conditions where my family could, in three short generations, move from being near the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder to being firmly in above average middle. No, we are not anywhere near the 1% and likely never will be. But we have it far better than my grandparents did. I do my best to remind myself of that every day.

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      1. Melissa

        I understand where you're coming from. I am not in favor of abolishing any system. If I had my druthers, we'd live in a strong consensus based system where the quality of the dialogue was high and where the main point was coming up with high quality solutions that satisfied as many people as satisfiable.

        I think the current oligarchic structure frequently stands in the way of economic mobility and it's possible to strengthen the social safety net by disaggregating the economic benefits and privileges from super billionaires and corporations who don't demonstrate social responsibility to their employees or communities.

        It seems that the only real incarnation we've seen of these conceptual ideas discussed as above is supply side economics, which I would suggest has not achieved the goal of flourishing for the many. It is possible that there are better examples of conservative ideals in practice that I just don't know about, but I guess I come up short when I think about places in which it has worked out as elegantly as described in the theoretical versions.

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    2. Melissa

      Oops, I forgot the last sentence, which I guess is, that's why I wouldn't call myself conservative.

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