Yodeling Trash from New Guinea

Who actually believes the media anymore? Can you really call yourself a liberal if you’re ...

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Who actually believes the media anymore? Can you really call yourself a liberal if you’re also a socialist? And what dog species does Zoë hate with a burning passion? It’s the weekend, and you know what that means: These questions and many more will be answered on this edition of Jonah’s Ruminant.

Show Notes:

–“Fiery, but mostly peaceful”

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  1. Austin

    If you want to learn more about the "era of good feelings," i recommend a podcast called Wicked Game. They're going through all the elections from 1789-2020.

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  2. Richard Fulmer

    Jonah,
    I disagree with your implication that free market capitalism is morally neutral - although I admit to making that argument in the past. I think that free markets create incentives that have a powerful positive moral impact at both the “macro” and “micro” levels.

    At the macro level, free market economists like Adam Smith opposed both conquest and slavery on moral and economic grounds. Smith pointed out that conquering people and keeping them conquered is far more costly in terms of life and treasure than is trading with them.

    Slavery, Smith observed, is an inefficient and wasteful way in which to employ labor. First, resources must be expended to keep slaves from escaping and to recapture those who do escape. In addition, Southern states passed laws against teaching slaves to read for fear that they might read abolitionist pamphlets smuggled in from the North, or that they might be able to coordinate revolts by exchanging written messages. Keeping workers ignorant greatly reduces their productivity.

    Capitalism raised women’s status to that of equality with men. In free market societies, brains have become far more important than brawn, and women are more than capable of competing with men in that realm.

    Finally, by making people so productive, free markets eliminated the need for child labor.

    At the micro level, free markets reward the so-called “bourgeois virtues” (e.g., self-reliance, persistence, reliability, prudence, thrift, diligence, honesty, creativity, tolerance, and civility) and punish their opposites.

    Free enterprise also punishes discrimination by making it costly. For example, southern bus companies pushed back against Jim Crow laws that required blacks to sit in the back of their vehicles. Angering customers is bad for business as is having to leave seats unfilled when there are too few customers of the “right” color.

    Capitalism, together with the Western ideal of individual liberty and responsibility, offer the possibility of living without coercion and oppression. They ask only that we reject slavery, colonialism, and imperialism, and that we abstain from trying to enlist government’s coercive power to further our own ideas and interests.

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    Anne W (Raw5254)

    I can’t believe you’re getting so much positive feedback! There are times when I come to the comments section and feel really disappointed. Even though I’m not a Trump supporter, it feels like it’s one big dump on anyone who votes Republican or considers themselves conservatives. I’m not saying it’s all wrong, but where is the so-called common ground, if there is any?

    But, then I get to come here today and read all kinds of interesting thoughts, and even some good stories about things we can all have in common. There’s still a mix of ideas, but there’s just a bit more coming together that makes me feel better, and happy I’m here.

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  4. G Haven

    Anne Applebaum "Twilight of Democracy". Please?

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    Michael

    Welp ... I was all on board believing what you said about Jeffry Goldberg ... until today. https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/06/media/jeffrey-goldberg-atlantic-trump-reliable-sources/index.html

    This leads me back to reading Eric Blair (a.k.a George Orwell) in a very fine essay about nationalism, which I think might be better stated as tribalism.

    https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwell/essays-and-other-works/notes-on-nationalism/

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    Adicesa14

    I haven't read all the comments, so I suspect this comment is made elsewhere: Martin Van Buren was elected in 1836, not 1832.

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    Angie

    I enjoyed that Jonah thanks

    Two thoughts; The 93 % thing, I can't read those people's minds, but...if I assume they are doing this based on my temptation to do something similar...it is not that I don't think the violence/looting/rioting is bad, because I do, and I don't dismiss it at all

    But, there are a large number of people on the right ( even here on the Dispatch), that keep saying that all these protests are violent and that all protestors are violent, and this is all our fault...and I find myself getting defensive about that, not to dismiss the bad, but, to point out the good and how much more there is? That it isn't all of us, or even most of us

    Also, serious question: if you think the Democrat party policies are terrible, so terrible you would never vote for them...why would you at the same time say they need to be strong and still part of the system? I know you have talked about this several times, but, I never understood why one doesn't cancel the other out?

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      Anne W (Raw5254)

      I appreciate what you’re saying, Angie, about generalizations. I’m more on the right, and I happen to think protesting is an important part of our freedom as a society. But you know how it is. Not only are we heading into an election where everything gets magnified, but social media makes it even more so. Each side has the ability to continuously send out feeds of the most extremely behaviors, and everyone feels the need to comment. I’m in another political news group of FB that happens to be conservative. Most of the people there are very nice, and actually spend a fair amount of time criticizing Trump and the Republican party. However, I’ve noticed that the other big occupation is posting a lot of really outrageous stuff they’ve found about what’s being said and done on the “left.” It’s as if there is absolutely nothing either side agrees on, but you and I know that’s not true.

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        Angie

        Yes, we do know
        I am hopeful that people like us will help bring us back to that
        Most of the time on here, those who do that are not a majority, lately, it just seems there are more than usual...I suspect that has something to do with the election getting closer...sigh gonna be a rough couple of months and no matter what happens, there are going to be angry people...sigh

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    CynthiaW

    Interesting bit about the dogs.

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    Tracie

    I enjoy your discussions about your dogs, and it sounds like you have a zoologically diverse and inclusive household, but I don't follow the pics and videos on twitter, so "dingo" is just a promo code for me. (My chronically dehydrated co-workers, and my cousin who is post-chemo - in South Texas summer no less - have enjoyed de hydrant. You should point out that, as a dry good, it's less energy intensive to transport than bottled water.) If your dingo looks like the dog in this article, she's super cute:

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/new-guineas-singing-dogs-found-alive-wild-180975704/

    I have a dog who is like myself, a mongrel, some sort of terrier who appears to be half or more poor man's jack russel - i.e., English vs Parson's - and we think +rat terrier, or maybe some beagle. The vet says that for behavioral purposes, she's a jack. Got her from the anti-cruelty society when she was "two" so there's lots we don't know.

    One has to throw away any notion of the blank slate when observing or living with a dog especially when they have some known DNA. "English" Jack Russells were bread to bark badgers out of holes, so every barking frenzy I just try to remember she's doing her job, or as you put it in a discussion about your dogs with your assistant, fulfilling her true nature.

    You should consider getting a dog trainer/expert on your pod. If you have already, invite them back. That'd be fun.

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      CynthiaW

      That was a really interesting article. And I agree, it would be a load of fun if Jonah interviewed a dog-training expert. Maybe one of the monks of New Skete ;-).

      I had a friend back in Oklahoma who had been a police-dog trainer in Germany. Nothing that ever blew up in the church nursery fazed her.

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        Tracie

        My dog daycare got it's start training police dogs. So, none of my little terriers behavior problems faze them at all.

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          CynthiaW

          We had a greyhound. She was the best dog on earth.

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    Kevin Johnson

    This is really good and important. Keep reminding folks of topics beyond Trump, without defending him since he is a “hot mess.” Part of preparing the post-Trump world is to keep working issues we had before him, and will have after him, without ignoring how he makes most things worse. Part of why we got Trump is that too many ignored for too long some of the things you come back to, from identity politics and the cultural revolution which grew on campus to now permeate schools, the press, museums, and even corporations. Many on the left want to slide critical race theory and trans extremism, inter Alia, onto the anti-Trump bandwagon. If we let that happen, normal people will search for another Trumpy leader to stop the madness...and they’ll find one. And refusing to stop riots will only accelerate this. Thanks.

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    1. Gerald Cuesta

      Whenever I hear people who lean right decry identity politics on the left - which sucks, yeah but... - I never or rarely hear or read a discussion of why they might exist in the first place - as a reaction to the identity politics of white conservatives, or those who consider themselves ‘real Americans’. Black communities were forced into identity politics for basic survival, as was the lgbtq community - years of abuse - often fatal - from the biggest tribe of all. It all sucks; but one form of identity politics is a reaction to the more powerful tribe.

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        Jonah Goldberg vertical-nib Author

        FWIW, I decry the identity politics on the right all the time.

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        Kevin Johnson

        Thanks. I think all people of good will can seek to “make race as irrelevant to how we treat people as eye color” to quote one leftie, Dr. Sam Harris, and to “judge people on the content of their character rather than the color of their skin” to quote another great leftie. Those who use failure to achieve these goals as reason to abandon them, are wrong-headed, I think. I agree with Jonah that those attempts in fact strengthen conscious, exclusionary concepts of “whiteness“ and breed conflict and violence which retard progress. Telling young people they are essentially, if not totally, defined by their skin color is a lie, racist, and the enemy of goals shared by many good folk from across the political spectrum. Sorry if you haven’t heard center-right folks on this, but you could read Thomas Sowell to get a start. Good luck and hope to share a better world with you going forward.

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      Tracie

      I'd say most TD members are in the 'stop riots' and 'looting is bad' camp, whatever else we disagree on.

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