Red on Red

Will populists split over Israel?

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Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis fields questions from former Fox News Television personality Tucker Carlson at the Family Leadership Summit on July 14, 2023 in Des Moines, Iowa. (Photo by Scott Olson/Getty Images)

Here’s a sentence you won’t see every day on this page: I agree with Matt Walsh and Mike Cernovich.

Walsh and Cernovich are populist “influencers,” each with more than a million followers on The Platform Formerly Known as Twitter. Walsh has north of 2 million, in fact, and the number of subscribers to his Daily Wire podcast has more than doubled in the past year. When he and Cernovich speak, lots of MAGA voters listen.

Walsh is worried about Israel’s conflict with Hamas being viewed as a “holy war” that might eventually entangle the United States.

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  1. Avatar photo
    Ben Connelly

    I thought Shapiro’s take in 2020 was completely honest. He made the best case for a position I didn’t support. I’ll be honest I was slightly more likely to support Trump in the 2020 election than 2016 (didn’t vote for him in either). I was actually surprised by the stolen election nonsense and January 6th. Until that moment, I thought all the people who cried “fascist” were boys crying wolf. I thought Trump was a terrible president but not the threat they did (I still think they were wrong about a lot of stuff).

    It’s worth pointing out for context that Andrew Tate is a Muslim. One might expect an anti-woke, alt-right, Muslim with a record of (allegedly) abusing and raping women himself to have “complicated” views on Israel and Hamas.

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  2. Belisarius.Aves

    1) Ben is not Tucker. He is well read, well written and sincerely believes in his religion and the preservation of Israel. Alienating Tucker supporters is probably not a good business model for DW. People can sub to two places (I sub to Dispatch, NR, Reason, Commentary, the Post, and the WSJ for example - oh, an Babylon Bee!)
    2) Owens works for the DW and wondering if Shapiro, a part owner, is regretting that. Walsh and Michael Knowles are certainly controversial but increasingly Owens is looking more Newsmax than Fox.

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      Ben Connelly

      I agree. I’m not a big fan of DW given their hires of fringe figures, but Shapiro strikes me as honest and sincere.

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  3. Lasixgtt

    Moral character is nothing if not a predictor of one's future actions or stances. A lot of MAGA bad actors will feel the temptation to oppose Israel precisely because that is the immoral and wicked thing to do. Andrew Tate, a bit of an expert on the subject, was the first one out of the gate only by dint of his professed faith. How long until Candace Owens or some other TPUSA specimen slithers out from under their rock to hiss their agreement?

    Tate also proves that embracing Hamas, heroes of BLM and the DSA that they are, is not as unthinkable for these guys as one might assume. A lot of Chomsky leftists are just as pro-Putin as they are, after all, and they made their peace with that.

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  4. Scianti7

    Trump is someone who lives with one foot on either side of illegality or despicable, he is way past the area of socially acceptable. And every time he is excused for being over the edge, the edge moves to accommodate him for those that excuse him. But as he pushed that edge further & further away from socially acceptable, he loses people. He continually hits the last straw for different folks as he continues his march in the land of despicable-ness. I don't think once you've broken the back with the last straw that those people will come back.

    I can't imagine it will be easy for him to appeal to more folks, he'll have to con the people that saw him as a conman since the 1990s, it's a hard sell.

    We shall see. My Trump voter said last night upon hearing Trump call Hezbollah very smart, that Trump just lost the election. We'll see if the whatabouters, excusers, & "look at the context" folks change minds today.

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    1. Jason Thomas

      I think there are a lot of voters who don't like Trump, but will vote against the Democrat, no matter what.

      I hope I'm wrong.

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  5. DRJ

    Israel has warned the people in Gaza in advance, something Hamas certainly didn't do with Israel. Israel is trying to avoid civilian casualties. But as long as Hamas uses the people of Gaza as human shields -- and the people know it -- then Israel has no choice.

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  6. Mattfrommo

    Matt Walsh is not a populists and is one of the most anti-Trump voices on the right. He was certainly one of the earliest and loudest critics and Trumps and has remained consistently anti Trump.

    Ben Shapiro might actually be the opposite of a populist. His taste in all things are about as far from populism as they can be and he does shy away from it. His policies preferences, as far as I can tell, are as establishment Republicans as it gets. He memorably had a quasi-debate with Carlson (who absolutely is a populist) over these issues several years ago.

    People at the Dispatch are going to have to learn that the term "populism" has a meaning and that meaning is not, "people on the right who have not criticized Trump with the passion that I want them to."

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  7. Brett

    We could 10x our aid to Israel and not hit Ukraine aid numbers. I support Israel almost unequivocally. But if we get to 20x and it's really a proxy fight with Iran, I will start to have reservations and call for peace, yeah. Guess I'm a populist? Thought of myself as neocon zionist for this position.

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    1. Scianti7

      Well, that seems unlikely because Gaza has never been a nuclear super-power like Russia. Neither has Iran.

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      Normb1442

      Israel's mission is rid itself of Hamas while holding what political support with the rest of the world which it has at the moment. As David French pointed out this week, that's a very tall order. All the money in the world won't affect that either way. Ukraine needed (and needs) material support in quantity because it's way overmatched against Russia; Israel is in exactly the opposite position vis-a-vis Hamas.

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      1. Brett

        Hamas yes but if hezbollah gets in Israel is outnumbered.

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          Normb1442

          Hezbollah can do a lot more damage than Hamas, but other than beefing up the Iron Dome, what would the Israelis need from us? Israel has invaded Lebanon before and would presumably do so again if Hezbollah got into the fight. Numbers have never been the deciding factor in Israeli wars. They're ALWAYS outnumbered. If Hezbollah invaded, Israel would simply blockade Gaza (which it's already doing) and focus on the north.

          It's politics, not munitions, that will be decisive in this war. And that's not even close to the case in Ukraine.

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          1. Brett

            Aren't we on the same side then? I think both Ukraine and Israel deserve some aid. We gave Ukraine 10x more over 2 years. My point is just that asking if that's too much is reasonable. It's just as reasonable to ask same about Israel since it needs it less, and would become more reasonable if 4 bn became 80.

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  8. Rossknode

    What's nauseating (well, one of the most nauseating things) is the populists selective use of "victimhood". So drug addicts are now powerless victims of Mexican drug gangs? Seriously?
    For every call to "bomb" Mexico, or whatever, the Mexicans can say "Get your stupid people to stop shooting up drugs." If there wasn't a massive market for drugs the cartels wouldn't be shipping drugs here.

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      Scarlette Tarte

      Well they are now victims since it's the white kids dying of heroin and fentanyl. But back in the day when it was the black folk using crack, it was "it's their own responsibility! Lock em up!"

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    2. Scianti7

      Exactly.

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  9. Nemmerle924

    The events in Israel force the moral and logical absurdity in the US to the breaking point. Everyone who is stuck in a mental rut on the US's problems and is thinking in circles, poisoned by misinformation and our toxic discourse, is having their brain yanked into an absolute morally clear hellscape where right and wrong are 100% obvious. The parts of those mental processes previously peacefully coexisting in their brains via cognitive dissonance, and now mewling in the dark - unable to be sustained.

    More than a few have tried to simply expand their mental circle-jerk to a wide enough circle to encompass the Israeli events. It cant be done. And we are seeing - everywhere - fracturing of the previous narratives and circles held tighter and tighter by trying to keep that Narrative together. Major figures on the Left are disavowing socialism because it's obviously anti-Semitic in its organized form. And Shapiro is calling out Tucker because it's OBVIOUS that Tucker has sort-of just pushed right on with his normal schtick.

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  10. Dougrhon

    I don't think Shapiro has ever been a Trump supporter. He took a lot of heat from MAGA nation over the years. Until the time is up I am still holding out hope that SOMETHING will red pill at least the percentage of Republicans who are not actual cultists but are supporting Trump and his support will collapse. As bad as everything is I think government by pique would be the worst thing of all.

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