Did Trump Cross the Mendoza Line?

Plus: We need to get over tech gurus.

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With new polls showing Donald Trump losing his grip on the Republican base, Sarah, David, and Steve debate the do’s and don’ts of gauging Trump’s political altitude. They also discuss Ron DeSantis’ attempt to court the vax-skeptic voter, the recent COVID outbreaks in China, and what the implosion of Sam Bankman-Fried tells us about America’s cult of the CEO. Plus: Should we be talking about MTG?

Show Notes:

–Josh Kraushaar on Trump’s declining position

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Comments (36)
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  1. Avatar photo
    Faraday

    A rare mention of the Vicky Mendoza Diagonal! Bingo!

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  2. Schroc4

    The 'not worth your time' segment has got to go. Either decide something is worth covering and talk about it or don't. I love your analysis on a lot of topics, but spending a few minutes at the end trying to get credit for not covering something makes me wish you actually hadn't wasted your time.

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  3. Aslamtu21

    Thank you. Great conversation. Steve opens up a little.

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  4. Avatar photo
    The Bell Tower

    It seems to me that DeSantis is doing these low level culture fights to peel Trump voters away. He isn’t attacking Trump but he also isn’t attacking other Republicans. These fights don’t have to be successful but he can just throw up his hands and blame the deep state or something.

    Meanwhile, you can’t take Trump head on because it’s impossible to out-jerk the guy. If DeSantis is smart, he gets a slugger like Christie on his side to punch Trump in the jaw while he plays peace maker. Punch the left, not other Republicans.

    I don’t know if he can pull it off but I’m guessing that’s his approach.

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  5. CAPotterABQ

    I remember during the 2016 primary "debates" sitting in the bar at the Crystal City Marriott and the first several questions asked to candidates who were not Trump were about Trump. At that point, I knew that in the view of the news media, that Trump was the weird guy on American Idol -- someone who would have a lot of clicks and provide viewing of the media channels and sites. We know what that led to...

    Many of us are now happy that Trump appears to be failing, but that's so exiting to the conservative media sources, like The Dispatch and National Review, that it seems to be all I see and hear about. Isn't this the same thing all over again? What Trump wants more than anything is to be talked about, and rather than ignore and forget about him, we bring up the fact that he's not doing well. Can we not just let him go away?

    BTW, growing up in New Jersey in the 70s and 80s, the one thing I always new about Trump was that he was willing to destroy anything to get what he wanted (like the USFL). I voted 3rd party in the last two elections because the other choices were almost as bad (I'm old enough to remember the Thomas hearings -- Kennedy may have made the noise, but Biden, the committee chair, allowed it to go on). I'm so hoping for a candidate that I can vote for, but, sadly, I suppose that's unlikely to occur.

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  6. Avatar photo
    Ben Connelly

    So I own less than $20 of Bitcoin if any (can’t remember), but David I think you’re wrong to say, “it’s primarily used for illegal transactions.” In multiple Latin American countries (especially Argentina), it is used very widely as an alternative to local currency (which is often subject to ridiculous inflation). I believe Bitcoin and USD are both used more in Argentina than actual Argentine currency, but I could be wrong. Russ Roberts (if you don’t know who that is ask Jonah) did an interview a couple months ago about this specific topic.

    As far as the guru problem goes, Sarah says it all: “who are we going to replace them with?” Exactly. Who? Hereditary nobility? We fought a war to not have to care what royal persons do with their time and money. I’m all for not paying attention to Zuckerdork and Sam Bankrobber Fried, but I don’t want to bring back dukes and earls either.

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    1. MathewA

      The Russ Roberts podcast was excellent.

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      1. Avatar photo
        Ben Connelly

        I love EconTalk

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  7. Charles.A.Bushii

    I’m a big fan overall, and a subscriber since 2019, but I think the handling of the vaccine issue in this podcast was sloppy (for background I’m an MD who did a research fellowship at HSPH. Although vaccines were not my area of focus I have some relevant knowledge).
    There is ample data regarding vaccines for anyone to see (most medical journals have made it public access).
    They have saved, and continue to save lives. No serious medical professional disputes this.
    DeSantis action regarding the vaccines is pure, unadulterated, political bullshittery. The members of the Dispatch podcast should be able to recognize it as such and call it out accordingly.

    Keep up the good work otherwise!

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    1. MathewA

      Two things can be true at once.

      Vaccines greatly reduced the risk of dying from COVID.
      Vaccines were also pushed as a way to stop COVID from spreading even though it had little efficacy in doing so. Thus the choice to take the vaccine or not should have just been up to your personal risk profile.

      I got the vaccine, I recommended my parents do so as well. My kids not so much

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    2. Spen.Murphy

      They are a miracle for 50+ or immunocompromised. They pose a greater risk than benefit if you are young and healthy, especially if you are also male. If true, does the public deserves to have this clearly articulated to them? Was it?

      Is that distinction not worth making, or untrue? Is it irresponsible to make that distinction?

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    3. Avatar photo
      Steve Hayes

      This is pretty close to my view and the one I attempted to articulate on the pod. If I left a different impression, it's a failure of communication on my part and not a difference of views. The vaccines have been a miracle and plainly, demonstrably effective. It's that reality that keeps me from agreeing with Sarah that there's zero political downside for DeSantis. Obviously we've seen that politicians can succeed despite their detachment from facts and reality -- or because of their creation of a new one -- but playing to the antivax crowd is a risky strategy and, in terms of public health, a dangerous one.

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      1. Spen.Murphy

        There are public health authorities around the world who have come to a different conclusion: the vaccines are miracles for 50+/severe co-morbidity patients.
        The vaccines may have a risk profile for younger/healthy demographics that outweigh potential benefits, especially if you are also male.

        Inaccurate information-from Pfizer or Public Health-on this front has potential societal impacts of some import.
        If this is true, or stated, does that diminish them being miracles, is it irresponsible? I don’t think so. Why isn’t this then included in the Dispatch discussion? Is that not the steel-man of one side?

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  8. Avatar photo
    Njh2005

    Re: DeSantis
    I think you will find this is the last time you hear him speak of vaccines unless the grand jury actually finds something. He can point to his vaccine access efforts if attacked from one side and his investigation if attacked from the other.

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  9. Avatar photo
    Tracie

    I'm probably a little too left to vote for DeSantis in a general election, though I definitely regard him as an improvement over 45, if only for intelligence/strategy and competence. I don't think he will be prone to foreign-policy idiocy, a quality which is increasingly important.

    What mainly makes him distasteful to me is the pandering to conspiracy theorists. I realize that even reasonable people can believe some outlandish stuff via repetition if they subscribe to certain news sources. (So thank goodness for The Dispatch.)

    Very good and even-handed discussion about COVID in China. As David said, it will be "interesting." I'm of the school of thought that they're trying to solve their demographic problems by letting (?)nature take it's course.

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    1. Avatar photo
      O.W.L.

      And their popularity problems too? If there's a massive wave of Covid ripping through the population, people will be too sick, too distracted/fearful or too dead to protest their government policies.

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  10. Very Old Grumpy Guy

    There should be no question in anyone's mind, that given their histories, the three people on this podcast WANT to discuss the positive aspects of the Republican party. They are NOT leftist nut balls. And yet, given the state of the party, the topics they are FORCED to discuss are hate porn distractions at best, or sheer lunacy at worst. That is the topics they have to pick from.

    If you haven't read it, the most recent Peggy Noonan piece, as totally out of touch as she is, concisely captures the insanity, triviality and isolation of the "leaders" of the Republican party.

    If Republicans were normal, the Democrats would be stumbling around chasing their tails as they are wont to do. With the Presidency, the Senate and almost the House, they are MUCH more politically powerful than their leadership/ideas would justify.

    When will the adults in the Republican party, stand up and recognize this?

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    1. Nordic_man

      When the adults think they can both stand up and speak, and not cause a democrat to win they will

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