Grace in Public Discourse

How should we react when people say or do things we find offensive in public ...

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How should we react when people say or do things we find offensive in public discourse? What is the role of forgiveness and grace in these contexts? How do we determine if apologies are sincere and the offending party is worthy of an opportunity for repentance and repair? Join David and Curtis as they discuss this timely topic and offer some guidance for how we can make some space for grace in our public discourse.

Show Notes:

–David French (WaPo): “Here’s the difference between Colin Kaepernick and Roseanne Barr”

–The French Press: “Cancel Culture, Conditioning Culture, and America’s Stun-Gun Style of Discourse”

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  1. RDG

    In keeping with your concept a variable response to the heart attitude of the critic, i find 1 Thess. 5:12-15 informative. Note that elders are expected to admonish, encourage or help others depending not on their critique, but based on their heart attitude. The challenge, as David said, is rightly discerning their heart. My sinful fear/attack response tends to impair my ability to hear their criticism rightly and obscure my capacity to see their heart attitude. I have found it helpful before responding to critics to ask myself who is this person…. Unruly thus love requires a reproof, Discouraged thus love requires encouragement without physical assistance, Incapacitated thus love compelled me bear another’s burden without complaint. This distinguishing seems to particularly apply to the publicly visible (elders), but also generally brethren.

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    Michael Berkowitz

    Did you actually say 𝘑𝘰𝘩𝘯𝘯𝘺 Mitchell?!

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  3. Brendan Bossard

    On reconciliation: Joseph reconciled with his brothers after testing the authenticity of their sorrow for selling him into slavery (Genesis 42 through 45 [https://ref.ly/logosref/BibleESV.Ge42.1-45.28]). This stands by itself as one of the greatest illustrations of grace and reconciliation ever written.

    On consequences:
    (a) God forgave David his sin, but he, his family, and his nation still suffered tragic consequences (2 Samuel 12 [https://ref.ly/logosref/BibleESV.2Sa12.7-15] and following).
    (b) God granted Ahab grace of sorts for his contrition after murdering Naboth for his vineyard, but his family still suffered for his sin (1 Kings 21 [https://ref.ly/logosref/BibleESV.1Ki21.25-29] and following).

    On podcasts:
    (1) Good Faith
    (2) Advisory Opinions
    (3) The Dispatch
    (4) The Remnant
    In that order. Sorry, Jonah.

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  4. Payette

    David and Curtis, great discussion, especially for Christians or those with Christian backgrounds. Might I suggest another topic: Forgiveness for Non-Christians. A lot of what you shared could easily be part of any of the other Dispatch podcasts. Keep up the good work!!

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    David M

    I listen to podcasts using the Overcast app and therefore rarely come over here to comment. Just to let David and Curtis know that I enjoy the Good Faith podcast and look forward the each episode.

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    Bjjenkins36

    I am always convicted by the passage in 2 Timothy 2:

    23 Have nothing to do with stupid and senseless controversies; you know that they breed quarrels. 24 And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but kindly to everyone, an apt teacher, patient, 25 correcting opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant that they will repent and come to know the truth, 26 and that they may escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.

    Public discourse can be profoundly consequential for those in the family of God: our words and actions can be used by God to bestow grace and freedom to the lost.

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  7. Gilbert Mendelson

    Please model for slow learners like me, specific words that incorporate the grace that will help me respond to the controversy raised around Whoopi, Ilya, and Joe.
    Your podcast helped me understand the broad role of grace and fallibility in my thinking about some of the dumb things I say and hear. Please take me the next step with some specific language that will guide my responses.

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    Will Roberts

    I would agree that David is one of the most graceful people under fire I have ever heard. I remember reading him in National Review and being really impressed by his compassion. As a Republican curious listener he has done more to persuade me of the conservative position than anyone else out there.

    I know Curtis' and David's hesitancy about using Jesus in the Temple and driving out the money changers as an example as to why public outrage and catharsis is justified. They didn't have time to explain in this episode. But in brief it is clear from the surrounding text (Jesus goes into the Temple looks around, leaves, and then comes back the next day to turn over the tables) that this is not a spontaneous act of outrage and anger but is rather a symbolic prophetic act that was carefully planned to provoke his own crucifixion. Often we speak out in anger we are surprised and dismayed by the reaction. But the reaction was exactly what Jesus wanted. It might be better compared to Rosa Parks refusing to give up her seat. In a sense it was an act of righteous anger but it was planned and measured to provoke a response that furthered the civil rights movement goals. Jesus turning over the money changers tables is not a justification for us to go off on people as it has often been used. The gift of self control is something that must be maintained even when one is under fire.

    I have said on other podcasts on the Dispatch and I will say it on this one. I would like further investigation into Whoopie's beliefs and what she knew about Jewish history prior to her comments. I don't really think ignorance as a black woman is an excuse since I think she would have been educated on the Holocaust from a young age as many of us were perhaps even more than the history of slavery. While she said it with less malice and vitriol than what Rosie O'Donald said I think perhaps her ideas are more damaging than what Rosie said to the Jewish community as a whole. I don't think it is uncommon in liberal spaces. She made the mistake that Joe Biden often makes. Saying the quiet part out loud. I guess deciding whether it was an offense worthy of firing would depend on her education prior to the comments. Unless we are going to say that firing is always inappropriate in commentary and academic settings. But that wasn't David's position with Rosie. His position is there is a line. I think that line in Whoopie's case should be determined by looking into her education on the subject. I doubt she is as ignorant as she claims to be unless Holocaust teaching in elementary schools was far different when she was growing up than when I was growing up. Perhaps it was. It would be an interesting question to answer.

    The question of forgiveness and criminal punishment is an interesting one. Forgiving someone personally doesn't mean that the state doesn't punish them corporately. But what if we apply this to God? Does saying God forgives us in Christ yet he still sends us to hell for our behavior make any sense? People often define differences between forgiveness and reconciliation but perhaps it would be just easier to say that forgiveness isn't appropriate in some circumstances. There is a difference between letting go of your personal anger and forgiving someone. I think the teaching of Jesus are less challenging when we say forgiveness doesn't require relenting from punishment and the re-establishment of relationship. I think that is the exact definition of forgiveness Jesus portrayed and that is why the disciples were so shocked. If he had made the same caveats we often make the disciples would have said, "well that sounds perfectly reasonable to me." I think a better distinction would be to say forgiveness is risky and not appropriate in all circumstances. And one can make a practical argument that punishment is necessary to maintain law and order. Though that notion has been challenged with notions of restorative justice.

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  9. Richard Kennedy

    Re: Driving Out The Money Changers. I’d like David and Chris to contemplate how OFTEN Jesus resorted to this in the accounts of His ministry.

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    Ben Connelly

    “Nuclear sub podcast” - I like it.

    To Curtis’s point at the end about David, I have on multiple occasions said to people something along the lines of, “David French exemplifies Christian grace more than just about anyone else in public life.” You’ve put up with a lot of crap (to say the least), David, and I doubt I could demonstrate the amount of patience that you do.

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