The Wisdom of Mortality with Jonathan Tjarks

David and Curtis are honored this week to share the microphone with Jonathan Tjarks, famed ...

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David and Curtis are honored this week to share the microphone with Jonathan Tjarks, famed NBA beat writer and podcaster for The Ringer. Jonathan’s recent piece “Does My Son Know You?” was a rare moment of candid sharing and distilled wisdom in light of his recent cancer diagnosis. This is truly a must listen as Jonathan shares a poignant perspective on faith, family and the power of community. Be sure to stay tuned to the end where he also breaks down a potential Grizzlies-Warriors matchup in the NBA playoffs, leaving one of our hosts happy and one sad.

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  1. Avatar photo
    Bill Shannon

    Thank you for this episode! I’ve yet to read Jonathan’s article but it is on my list.

    About keeping the guys groups going. There are many ways to do that without watching sports. When I was in University I found a church called Scum of the Earth. Despite its name and parishioners appearance it was a pretty traditional church. We sang mostly CCM worship songs and our pastor was ordained through the PCUSA. We had an unofficial small group of guys that we called The Council of “L. Ron Hubbard”. We would gather on a weekly basis and have competitions for rings. We had a Scrabble ring, Ms. Pac-Man ring, Disc Golf Ring, Pinball ring and the one ring to rule them all. That ring was actually forged and we used Mt. Dew to cool it off. Needless to say we were a pretty nerdy bunch. But it was loads of fun! After a couple years we all went our separate ways because that’s the nature of that phase in our lives. We do keep in touch via social media and texting but it’s not the same.

    In my current small group I am talking the guys into starting our own “council”. It will be modified because we are all middle aged guys with families so we don’t have as much free time. I see this as very valuable times of for anything it’s a brief break from the troubles of the world and if someone needs prayer we are all there for them. There is some talk about having a 20 year reunion of the original council. I really hope that turns into a reality!

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    Will Roberts

    Thought this was one of the best podcasts on Good Faith thus far.

    I will be praying for Jonathan's recover so his son is not left without a father.

    I have read about the power of home groups throughout my ministry and experienced them myself. Yet, for many older churches, it tends to be a foreign concept, having strangers over to their home on a regular basis. I engaged the church in college and life/small group became second nature to me. But in my career I have worked in churches were most members have never been to another member's house.

    I also find people still segregate around age groups. I have found multi-generational friendships to be fulfilling as a pastor. But most young Christians treat church like a social club or a dating scene. Not that I didn't once do so before I became a pastor. As Jonathan mentioned it is hard enough to get to know someone who may not share your affinities. I think it is harder for people of different generations. Thus young churches tend to soak in more young people. And older churches tend to fade away. My experience in the young church circuit in a major city is young professionals tend to float around young churches. One church has its moment in the sun and that fades as the young people become board or follow their friends to other churches. While I think community and friendship is a key aspect of the church I am sometimes saddened how church comes become more about seeking a social circle than seeking Christ.

    As a male I am one of those few males that sports is a foreign language. And I have often regretted that. Because I found it has limited my male friendships and my ability to use sermon analogies that people are interested in. I am a bit of a geek like David. But some in my congregation find sci-fi references immature. While references to people throwing and kicking balls to one another for lots of money is somehow more mature.

    So I do wish I knew more about sports at times. But I also find Jonathan is correct that men tend to limit their conversations around sports and use it as an excuse to connect while women don't really need that excuse to connect. I don't know why that is. I think male pastor's tend to be the exception. We tend to be more verbal and introspective by nature. I think the ministry attracts men who may like sports but don't have a problem expressing themselves outside of sports.

    I have often found that sports has a lot to do with father and son connection. That Sons often like the teams their father's took them to. They are symbolic for their relationship with their father. My Father likes sports but never watched them with me. Instead, being a political scientist, he talked about politics with me. Which is one of the reasons I subscribe to the Dispatch. But I find talking about politics to lack the connection that sports talk seems to make with a lot of sports fan.

    I would disagree with David that sports is a more close medium that affects people than politics which is a distant medium. One may get excited about a sports team win. And some may be employed by local games but Government policy has far more effect on us locally than perhaps we can imagine. Even policy in D.C. There was once a time when the F.D.A didn't exists and companies could put whatever they wanted in food and drugs. Many died till the F.D.A was given power in the thirties. Our everyday lives have become far safer because of public policy. We just tend to take things that work for granted because they are working in the background.

    I think politics talk is less rewarding than sports talk because the lines that define what winning and losing are less clear. People can't agree on the rules of the game. Indeed, much of politics is arguing over the rules of the game so much so the game of public life gets stalled. The stakes also tend to be higher which makes people feel threatened.

    Perhaps life groups are a good example of how political reconciliation could occur. Jonathan mentioned how many of his friends he would not have become friends with naturally but he did so over time through the common work of studying the Bible.

    I have heard the idea of establishing another chamber of congress. So we would have the Senate, the House of Representatives, and what would be called the People's House. The people's house would be randomly selected citizens who are selected through lottery. They would be paid similarly to the other branches. They would be given the resources and staff to support them. But we would leave it up to the common people to help draft legislation. I think this would accomplish the purpose of making people across the country friends as in a small group. It would give common people a sense of how hard legislation actually is. It is not getting rid of representative government but it is basically creating a gathering place for the nation. A church where regular citizens gather to participate in the tradition of democracy. That is what a church is a bunch of random people drawn to Christ. State sponsored religion doesn't work. But the state taking a que from religion and creating a secular gathering place for the people to participate in the work of governing I think would go along way to solving the divisions of the nation. After lone enough time everyone would know someone who worked in the people's house. So they can just call someone they trust to tamp down on conspiracy theories. It is a random idea. But randomly selecting people might be as good if not better than selecting people based off a popularity contest.

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    JDW

    Despite having little interest in the NBA other than appreciating the occasional reply David posts, I think I would love talking to Jonathan Tjarks. I'd have him share his love for the game with me. We'd definitely share our love of Christ.

    I've often pondered why I think I live a fairly happy life. I've definitely not hit the bucket list I set for myself when I was young. In fact that young man might see me as a failure. I do have a vibrant set of friends both inside and outside the church. I may be very fortunate that I've got these friends and I wasn't that intentional about it other than being faithful to my church and being a friend maker by nature.

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    Beach004

    About the difficulty of keeping your small group(s) going: Yes, moving away, quarrels over politics (or basketball--go Tarheels!) can separate groups; but neither of you young men have yet encountered what is destroying MY small groups. I'm 79, though I act much younger (often too much younger). I am a member of two great groups: one, at my church, has been ongoing for some forty years. The other, made up of college fraternity brothers who rediscovered each other when the Internet made that possible, has been meeting via text and occasional in-person gatherings, for about 20. But, one by one, as their work here is done (see "Gone Home") they pass away. For the church group, there can be replacements; but the age gap gives them and me less and less in common. But for the fraternity, there of course ARE no replacements; those are permanent losses.
    David and Curtis: this special kind of loneliness yet awaits you.
    Lowrie Beacham

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    Peter

    So fulfilling. As the kids say, "keep your circle small" is very real.

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  6. Julie Fisher

    I so enjoy this podcast! David French and Curtis Chang provide intelligent conversation and gracious commentary. Thank you for your labors!

    This podcast got me thinking about the isolation many accept in American society and how distrust in American institutions (including the church) contributes to this isolation. I also think of Francis Chan's earlier commentary about institutions imaging God similar to how individuals are image-bearers.

    How do we as Christians and how do our churches foster small groups within our localities to reach those not ready to enter our churches? How do we promote the flourishing of our local communitiy beyond inviting people to our in-house programming?

    Our family has found Cub Scouts and The Boy Scouts of America to provide the interdependence that Jonathan alludes to. The BSA has had its issues, not unlike the church, but continues to provide young people a sense of identity rooted in moral values and civic engagement.

    At one point, I would have thought my kids should join a uniquely Christian club or youth group, but we are thriving in our Pack and Troop! I just wish more church-goers invested in similar civic institutions to have more interaction with those outside the church.

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    1. Laurie

      Hi Julie,
      I like your encouragement and ideas. It's Curtis Chang that is the cohost of this podcast. (You can edit your post by pressing the 3 buttons at the bottom of it btw)

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      1. Julie Fisher

        Oops! Thank you. It's called DST and not enough sleep last night!

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    BrandonAlleman

    Looking forward to this. I was thinking this week after reading Jonathan's Ringer piece that he'd be a great guest for David. I'm glad it happened!

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