A More Perfect Union

On today’s show, Jonah speaks to Manhattan Institute fellow and CCNY professor Daniel DiSalvo (an ...

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On today’s show, Jonah speaks to Manhattan Institute fellow and CCNY professor Daniel DiSalvo (an expert on public-sector unions and their history) to find out how the sausage really gets made in the intra-organizational politics of these public-sector unions, and how their influence is often the result of “the breakdown of machine politics – especially within the Democratic Party – in big cities.”

Show Notes:

–      Dan’s page at the Manhattan Institute

–      “The Trouble with Police Unions”

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  1. Avatar photo
    Dan Jett

    Jonah, I’ve been meaning to comment on this podcast for a few weeks now but I’ve been too busy with work to get a chance. One thing you guys never mentioned is how union political activity has ultimately reduced the the power or efficacy of the broader private sector union movement. By advocating for an ever higher minimum wage, restrictive use of independent contractors and generally activist groups and ongoing government intrusion into the private sector workplace through more and more statutory and regulatory enactments, unions REDUCE the need for individuals to unionize their workplace. By unilaterally imposing the terms and conditions of employment on all private workplaces, demand for unionization has plummeted. By advocating for top-down government control of the workplace, they kill the bottom-up union movement. Hence the steep decline in union membership over the last 50 years as government regulation of employment has increased. I think unions provide an important counterweight in the private labor market and I’d much rather see unionization flourish over an increased regulatory presence.

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  2. Avatar photo
    BWG

    Thanks for a very illuminating discussion. Here in WA state the 50th percentile public school teacher salary is $63k, with the 90th percentile at $81.6k, according to salary.com. Not Westchester, but a decent living, and the COL in Westchester is probably a good deal higher. Teachers are pretty important, and I'd be open to increasing compensation for the best ones, provided it was easier to penalize the bad ones, up to and including termination.

    ("percentile" - the same phrasing as those standardized test results, so appropriate!)

    I would've appreciated discussion about whether anyone is looking at phasing in 401(k) type plans to eventually replace standard pensions for the public unions. (I don't think you discussed although I was a bit distracted through part of it.) I'm very fortunate to have both 401(k) and standard pension plans. The new kids hiring on want just a 401(k), with any funds the company would otherwise invest for pension going to the 401(k) in the form of matching contributions. The portability and opportunity to self-direct your investments are quite attractive - I would think these would be attractive to rank and file union members also. Of course the company wants the pension as an anchor to keep employees around for a good long time, but funding primarily a 401(k) significantly limits its cost and risk. This might be a good topic for Scott L. - 401(k) versus standard pension plan from the organization's perspective, both public and private.

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  3. Richard Fulmer

    I’m currently reading “The Progressive Revolution in Politics and Political Science: Transforming the American Regime.” Scot J. Zentner, in one of the book’s essays, argues that Woodrow Wilson disliked machine politics because the party machines were centers of power that were separate from government. Perhaps the charges of corruption were less a reason for eliminating the machines than a plausible excuse.

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  4. Jason Runyan

    When the guest at the end was referring to "passion" when talking about the people that get angry about his views, it made me thin of the movie Seven, when Somerset shows up to the murder scene, and the first cop says to him "they say it was a crime of passion", and while Somerset is looking at the blood spatters responds with "Look at ALL that passion!"....... sure was a lot of commercials in this episode.......

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  5. Avatar photo
    Sad Trombone

    It seems to me the difference between private and public unions is the difference between professional boxing and professional wrestling. Public unions have adopted the patina of competition and bargaining, but it's all kabuki.

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  6. Michael.Terrien

    Re: the tolls in Illinois. As a 31 year Chicagoan (who's litigated over public sector pension funding in the past) I can tell you that in Illinois literally EVERYTHING exists to pay the pensions. They are a bottomless pit so huge that they suck in everything in sight. In one of the highest taxed states in the country government services are cut because the monster has to be fed. Taxes are raised because the monster has to be fed. Property values are depressed because the monster has to be fed. And the monster keeps getting bigger. Illinois, thank god, is on the extreme end of public pension under-funding. It's a problem in many states, but Illinois' corrupt mess of a government has raised making unfunded promises to an art form. It is unavoidable that there will come a day when at least one of three things will happen: 1) Illinois will begin defaulting on its pensions and bonds; 2) Illinois will plead with the federal government to offer it an insolvency proceeding like Puerto Rico's; or 3) Illinois will voluntarily amend its constitution to allow the pension promises to be modified. The state is simply past the point where actually keeping all the promises is a viable option.

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  7. Avatar photo
    DillaDonutz

    You need to bring back "CAAAN YOOUU DIGGGITTTT!" - i miss it

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    1. Avatar photo
      BWG

      Yeah, I noticed that change, which happened about a month ago. Copyright infringement issues?

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  8. Pseudo-Jeremias

    I'm curious in the cross-national, cross-cultural comparison of US public sector unions with pubic sector unions in other countries (particularly WEIRD countries, such as in Western Europe or Canada). Is there the same etiology (probably not), and do public sector unions give rise to the same kinds of issues? I confess to being ignorant about such cross-national, cross-cultural comparisons, and would love to be pointed in the direction of some good resources on the subject.

    In part, my curiosity in such comparisons is driven by the hope that they might reveal some possible routes to reform.

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    1. Avatar photo
      Sad Trombone

      Interesting question. I know it costs more than three times more per mile to build a subway in New York than it does in Paris, and the French aren't considered pansies in their labor relations.

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  9. Avatar photo
    Kevin Durant?

    “As everyone knows I have some serious problems with what Republicans are doing with voting these days.”

    This is when you have jumped from caring about the scale, scope, severity, and real life outcome, and you are now just criticizing Republicans because it’s your hobby.

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    1. Photo of Jonah Goldbergcircle-angle-nib
      Jonah Goldberg vertical-nib Author

      Make your case. Because I’m really familiar with my intentions and I could swear they were to acknowledge that the GOP has issues too, without getting bogged down in them, while trying to elucidate and illuminate the issues that my guest was an expert on. But, by all means, inform me on how I was ackshually indulging my hobby.

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      1. Avatar photo
        Kevin Durant?

        Two things are happening:

        1) Republicans, at the state level, creating restrictions.

        2) HR1 eliminating the state level

        Is it even close which one is worse?

        This is why I’m saying it’s a hobby. You can always beat Republicans up. They are wrong all the time.

        You get to pick what you criticize. You “call it like you see it” which is important. But you are CHOOSING the things that you criticize.

        I do not understand how HR1 isn’t absolutely dominant at the top of your list of things to criticize.

        This appeared a while ago in your podcast with Charlie Cooke where you guys basically just disagreed on tactics.

        Yes. Tactically. Why are you choosing to criticize the less threatening option in an outsized manner? Why?

        Not reading into your motivations at all. I just don’t get why you would bother detailing the problems with the interior of the house that is being robbed. I’m sure the feng shui is bad, but who cares?

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        1. Photo of Jonah Goldbergcircle-angle-nib
          Jonah Goldberg vertical-nib Author

          The reason HR1 isn't "absolutely dominant" on my list of things to criticize is pretty obvious, I thought. It has zero chance of passing the senate. It's a virtue signaling campaign ploy. But yes, I often CHOOSE (all caps to make it really serious) to criticize Republicans these days because I still take greater offense when people supposedly on my "side" of an argument are defiling both the argument and the conservative label (by the way, on the Dispatch podcast yesterday I in fact criticized HR1 quite strongly). If this seems disproportionate to the larger political stakes, fine. As I've said 5,000 times, I care more about the state of conservatism than I do about the state of liberalism. And pretending that the right's problems aren't real so I can aim my fire leftward is something I'm just not interested in.

          I'm sorry you don't like my priorities sometimes. Regardless, choosing this podcast conversation as the place to raise your complaint is some really weak sauce. I mean, the whole point of the segment was to talk about bad stuff Democrats were doing. But you're mad at me for anticipating a criticism from the left? That's lame. If you think I should never criticize Republicans or conservatives because Democrats are worse on X or Y, I think you might want to stop listening to the Remnant altogether. Because two years of me explaining why I won't do that don't seem to have made much of an impact on you. There are literally dozens of very good -- and hundreds of absolutely terrible -- rightwing podcasts that do that sort of thing.

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          1. Avatar photo
            Jason Gibson

            Atta way jonah. Get in the ring! Sometimes I think you need A beach montage workout with Apollo creed to leap into the comments more vigorously as David does

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            Kevin Durant?

            “I'm sorry you don't like my priorities sometimes.”
            ———————————
            No no!!
            *wags finger awkwardly

            You are great and shall continue to be great and I shall continue to air my grievances as you proceed will your analysis which I often view as great.....but sometimes aimed rightward in a way that doesn’t make sense.

            Bad move on my part as I should probably recognize that this is a repeated annoyance for you.
            😂😂😂

            (obviously I can take your zero-chance-of-passing analysis and apply it to the treasonous Dan Crenshaw lawsuit)

            In this specific scenario I just think it’s not awesome to pick Republicans as the top-of-head primary worst available election offender.

            *mockery of all caps strategy duly noted

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        2. Avatar photo
          Kevin Durant?

          I should add that it’s not as if I think you are not critical of HR1. It’s just that HR1 is not a primary concern. The primary concern is the thing you mentioned. Republican wrongdoing.

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          1. Avatar photo
            Man-Eating Cow

            " The primary concern is the thing you mentioned. Republican wrongdoing."

            You seem to have listened to a different podcast than the one I listened to.

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          2. Avatar photo
            Kevin Durant?

            And when I say “tactics” I’m not talking about tactically helping Republicans.

            I’m talking about helping the country.

            If the Republicans are measurably less bad then tactically it isn’t a tough call. No?

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