Generation Turnip

Isolated and sleep-deprived in the wilds of the Pacific Northwest, Jonah once again attempts to ...

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Isolated and sleep-deprived in the wilds of the Pacific Northwest, Jonah once again attempts to fuse the classic Ruminant format with that of a supplemental episode. With the possibility that Supreme Court could overturn Roe v. Wade, a sea change could soon occur in American politics. Using an extract from The Tyranny of Clichés (still available wherever books are sold!), Jonah explores some of the most challenging questions surrounding the jurisprudence of abortion. When does life truly begin? Why are taboos so important? And are dogmas, religious and otherwise, fundamental to the health of a civilized society?

Show Notes:

– The Morning Dispatch breaks down Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization

– Jonah’s previous ruminations on abortion

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  1. Avatar photo
    Jason Gibson

    For the record this was a great episode

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    Christopher Hall

    For what it’s worth, nice “Stripes” reference.

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    The Bell Tower

    In typical progressive fashion, I suspect Sotomayor wants to make it a religious question because she doesn’t like the answer science gives her.

    This plays out the same on gender, abortion, climate and many other scenarios. It’s all about the science so long as the science coincides with the dogmatic bedtime stories progressives tell themselves.

    As the flat-earthers like to tell everyone: “We’ve got members all over the globe!”

    Did I hear that joke here? Can’t remember, but I liked this episode.

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    J.Seravalli

    I agree this was not the best, but then abortion convos are not like discussing the best tuna salad sandwich recipe. One thing about dogmas is they are everywhere. Contrary to what many progressives and even some conservatives believe, there are dogmas in Science. The Bernoulli principle, Central Dogma of Biology, principle of Correspondence and Detailed balance and so on. They are absolute laws, there are violations to all of them that have been demonstrated, but that does not suggest they are not true. So my take is that dogmas are both good and necessary, but certainly not universal nor sufficient.

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    Ben Connelly

    Man, this brought back an uncomfortable recent conversation I had with my sister. She’s pro-choice and made the argument to me that essentially the only reason we decided murder was immoral was that society wouldn’t function if you could just go around killing people.

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    BWG

    In my admittedly somewhat limited experience (2.25 years), often rabbit-hole-ish (rabbit holey?? rabbit holy?? Holy rabbit holes Batman!); but never rambling and incoherent. The rabbit holes are almost always interesting. I must admit I dozed off during the nerdy interview with the lefty guy with a recent book release that you interviewed a few weeks ago, but I'm sure many more erudite than me appreciated it. Fortunately I wasn't driving or operating heavy construction equipment or wooing my wife at the time.

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  7. Richard Fulmer

    I don't think that creating a moral system based on reason alone is impossible. John Rawls' "veil of ignorance" is a step in that direction and, I think, a good step. The problem comes when a Hobbes, Bentham, Hegel, Marx, or, for that matter, a Lenin or Hitler offer their own, competing, moral systems. On what basis do we choose between them? Who has the authority to say "this, not that"? Do we let the majority decide? What if the majority votes to oppress, enslave or slaughter a minority?

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    1. Pohl

      It is definitely not impossible because, as the Church affirmed in the late 19-th century at Vatican I, man can know God by reason alone.
      If, however, you mean to say an atheistic ethics, it’s ultimately untenable. Anyone thinking they see evidence to the contrary, I would argue it’s because the entire world has been profoundly impacted by the West, and we’re all living on the spiritual capital of the Judaeo-Christian tradition, as Jonah delved into.

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    Kevin C. Smith

    I dunno if it was Ryan or Caleb that produced this one, but the Jeopardy music while Jonah dealt with Zoe was a chef's kiss.

    Also, a mid-week, unexpected Ruminant is like a fun surprise. Can't wait for the Drive Time this weekend! Maybe let Guy out of the dungeon this time and get him a mic!

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      Kevin C. Smith

      I guess if I had scrolled down slightly, I would have seen it was Ryan.

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  9. Sam

    A while ago you asked for some podcast recommendations just got around to it now.
    18forty https://18forty.org/ "Helping you find meaning in life through the exploration of Jewish thought and ideas." A very interesting podcast exploring big ideas such as repentance, social justice, loss, comedy, Sabbath (this months topic is rationality) and more from a jewish perspective with many fascinating guests including Prof Jonathan Haidt, former Senator Joe Lieberman, Formerly Hasidic Comedian Leah Forster, Rabbi Moishe Weinberger and others. website https://18forty.org/ apple podcast https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/18forty-podcast/id1509495701

    Also in Honor of HANUKKAH here a great lecture from Rabbi Dr Meir Soloveichik (part of a larger series on the Jewish year check out the whole thing. YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcOm5P3GD0s&list=PL6oZLDbtGHeWV4Urqq5copmE5TXWaxxRI Apple podcast https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/sacred-time-ep-6-hanukkah/id1446908053?i=1000425810077

    Enjoy!

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    Dan

    Hi Jonah, I wonder if you would be willing to talk about this on an upcoming Ruminant: with Kim Wyman departing her post as Washington State's Secretary of State, the entire West Coast is now monolithically Democrat with only Democrats in state positions. And as a liberal dem, that scares me because now my conservative neighbors and fellow state citizens are right to claim that they do not feel represented at all. My first principles are equality and plurality--so to me having a mixed state government of both Republican and Democrat is essential and ideal. Everyone's got representation and everyone has a say. How do I accomplish that when I'm now living in a state where *all* of my elected representatives are technically on the same side as me and will take the positions I would naturally expect of them? I will say that rural Washington State has done itself no favors in purging most of the moderate conservatives and Republicans and going full in on the Trump-Mania. The few that remain I am inclined to support, but how can I do so without risking their standing with their own preferred (very pro-Trump) constituency? If I cross party lines and register as a Republican, is that ethical? Would I be diluting healthy conservatism even further, or doing my part to drag the Right back to sanity post-Trump? How do we find a way out of this and get back to heterogeneity at a state level? I *want* moderate Republicans (and even some sane far right ones) back in positions of power, but how do I accomplish that from a position of opposition?

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      BWG

      Yes, that might be a good topic for the Dispatch, though I'm not sure Jonah is the one to deliver it. I greatly appreciate and am enriched by Jonah's knowledge of, and ability to critique, all things political and many cultural. But he's not an activist, and really you're asking for an activist plan for moderates retaking the Republican party on the "Left"coast. Yuval Levin might have some good ideas, although he's not particularly an activist either. Unfortunately most activists seem to come from the extremes on either side.
      I'm from the right, both geographically (Tri-Cities) and politically, but far from the madding MAGA crowd, though seemingly surrounded by it. I think there are many more moderates than it appears. The problem, as usual, is that the extremes come out to vote in the primaries, leaving the middle with an extremely disappointing choice in the general between a liberal Democrat and a whacknut MAGA. Unless and until we change the primary system, we need to figure out some way to motivate moderates to vote in the primaries.

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