The Coming Decline of Fox News

Win or lose, Murdoch media will decline after the Dominion suit.

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214
Fox News headquarters in New York City. (Photo by Erik McGregor/LightRocket via Getty Images)

Why did they put it in writing?

I come back to that question every time something new pops up on the wires about Dominion Voting Systems’ defamation lawsuit against Fox News. Endless commentary (mine included) has dwelled on the audacity of Fox hosts and managers in credulously airing allegations they believed to be false about a matter as grave as the integrity of a presidential election.

But the most audacious part, which is less often noted, is that they expressed their doubts in written communications to each other. 

They must have known those communications would be discoverable if they were sued. If they didn’t, in-house counsel at Fox would have clued them in. To all appearances, they never thought to ask. Why?

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  1. Andrew M

    We're into year 8 of Trumpworld, and for the life of me, I cannot understand the fanatcal hold he has on his supporters. It's nowhere near just political support; it feels like a religious cult, and I don't understand it.

    Not once in the 76 years he's been alive has that man demonstrated an ounce of compassion, strength, integrity, or leadership ability, and yet millions of people seem willing to follow him, lemming-like, down to the pits of oblivion. Can anyone explain why?

    This obsession just baffles me. What is it about him that I'm missing?

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    1. Brian

      I think for a lot of us, we just simply had no idea just how many Americans were so utterly lost, damaged, and hopeless, and how angry they are at the rest of us for their feelings and needs not being the number one priority for the rest of us. How did this seemingly functional society produce so many damaged people in the last 20 years or so?

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      Max

      That he is obviously not part of the establishment machine. Their inability to conceal their contempt for him reflects the sense of grievance and anger his supporters feel every day.

      The base of the GOP has been rebelling for years. The party couldn't control the forces they helped unleashed in the Tea Party wave, and have no idea what successful governance looks like. Only 33 members of the GOP majority in the House have been serving prior to the 2010 Tea Party wave.
      That means most GOP congressmen have come of political age in an era where constantly attacking your own party and own leadership is just routine.

      The party was rudderless in the vacuum left after the Bush years. Unlike Reagan, Bush left a legacy no one wanted to gravitate to. Afterwards, the party pushed for McCain, a man who made attacking the base of his own party the central theme of his career. Then Romney, a technocratic moderate masquerading as a "severely" conservative guy was hoisted onto the party. Think about that. The man who invented Obamacare was championed to run against Obamacare. There was obvious base disapproval in both McCain and Romney's candidacies. The dopes running the McCain campaign tried to remedy this by adding Palin to the ticket as kind of a grievance cheerleader, to no avail. Her VP run showed the potential for a resentment-based candidacy, a modern update to the Southern Strategy Nixon employed to stave off Reagan and win the White House in 1968.

      Romney ignored this, doubling down on austerity by selecting Ryan as his running-mate, and that campaign left the angry GOP base largely unfulfilled. Afterwards, the GOP solution was to to become more like the Democrats, to back amnesty, and some of the party's most talented politicians fell for this. Marco Rubio, who many in the establishment wanted to push to the White House, became the amnesty poster boy. Base resistance to this tanked the immigration bill and tainted Rubio's White House ambitions.

      Then, after everything they had seen, after all of the blaring sirens and obvious flashing warning signs, the geniuses running the party thought it would make all the sense in the world to nominate another Bush!

      This more than anything opened the door to Trump. Ever the opportunist, Trump jumped into the GOP lane that was open, the populist lane. The base didn't care that he was a phony or a liberal or a New Yorker. He was talking about their issues, often, on every channel, again and again. 15 other candidates all fought over the lane that had ended with Bush's failure and McCain and Romney's subsequent losses. Trump was left alone, a media magnet who soaked up all of the attention. Some of the base, largely those without college educations, either thought Trump was a genius business mogul or they knew he was a fraud but excused it because he made all the right people mad. That's how we got here. The party neglected and abused its voters for years. Trump is their revenge. Many of them know what he is, they just don't care and in some cases, prefer him the way he is and hope he becomes even more ridiculous.Show lessExpand full commentShow lessShow less

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      1. Avatar photo
        Kizedek

        That’s a good explanation of the grievances leading up to Trump. Yet it appears things have gone beyond Trump being their revenge — many seem to actually believe the image he presents, believe he won the election, etc. (as opposed to merely being the best option to act as vehicle for their revenge). But I guess that could be explained by them wanting revenge so badly that they engage in wish fulfillment. He is their “Retribution”.

        Some religiously conservative friends of mine on Fb were just pushing the Tucker program about the footage Tucker received. His intro was something else, I just about threw up (since I have extended family in Kyiv). Despite the law suit, and having been shown to be lying about the 2020 election, he still pushed the lie yesterday, using it as justification for the peaceful walk to the Capitol, in which some mysterious officials opened doors for the protestors and led them around (something the Dems and the committee “don’t want us to see”).

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    3. Philip.R.M.Hunt

      Trump is a con artist. The best con artists don't find really gullible people that will believe anything. The best con artists find a group of people really want to believe in a particular fantasy, then sells them their own fantasy. That is why they love him. But he cannot actually make the fantasy become real. They cannot admit this because they would admit that they had been conned.

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    4. Billy Zammit

      Because we hate liberals (and NeverTrumpers)

      Imagine you believed that liberals were inherently and irredeemably evil and that you were locked in an existential war with them. That's how we feel so we support the guy who "owns the libs" better than anyone in history.

      I know that this explanation is a waste of keystroke as liberals/NeverTrump are completely incapable of understanding this, but it really is a simple concept

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      1. Danielmedas1

        If this is true (and no doubt it motivates you personally given your relationship with your family), then it would mean 'trump supporters' think even less of themselves than the liberals do.

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        Kizedek

        Incapable of understanding what?

        1) that another group is inherently and irredeemably evil? You’re right, I don’t understand that.

        2) that those on the radical right believe liberals are inherently and irredeemably evil and that the radical right is locked in an existential war with liberals? Totally understand that.

        Rather than inherently and irredeemably evil, I believe that the radical right is as lost, irrational, duped, and deceived as they think everyone else is.

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      3. Endofunctor

        I'm curious about your religious beliefs. I know you can't be a Christian because your statements are so diametrically opposed to the Gospel message.

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        1. Billy Zammit

          I'm Jewish

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          1. Endofunctor

            I know Judaism doesn't teach hatred for your enemies either.

            “If your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat; And if he is thirsty, give him water to drink” - Proverbs

            I'd suggest that you consider whether hate can lead to anything but more hate. Even if you despise their policies, consider whether at least some of these people are not as bad as you think. Perhaps some of them are mistaken or flawed, not evil?

            As for all liberals being "irredeemably evil".. that's quite a generalization. There are certainly *some* liberals that hate all Trump supporters. They see Trump supporters as something less than human. But aren't you doing the same thing? Don't stoop to the level of the worse of the other side.

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      4. Philip.R.M.Hunt

        “Imagine you believed…” That is the nub of the problem. Both the populist right and the populist left live in imaginary worlds, fighting imaginary enemies. Not completely made up, just highly exaggerated. Neither the populist right nor the populist left are are as evil as the other side imagines, but this is more of a matter of competency than intent. Both are more pathetic than evil.

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        1. Billy Zammit

          My family are white liberals and literally all of them:
          1. Support violence, up to and including murder, against Trump supporters. I have never met a liberal who does not support violence against Trump supporters.
          2. Supported a police state to enforce forever lockdowns, forever masking and mandatory vaccines during COVID. They loooooooved the lockdowns and the masks.
          3. Support using whatever violence is necessary to confiscate all privately owned guns

          There are other things I could say about them too but I think those three points alone illustrate that this is a war, a literal war, to the end and no compromise is possible. You have chosen to side with the libs and that's on you.

          BTW, my family are all centrist Biden lovers, they revile Bernie and his ilk. All liberals are evil, regardless of how extreme they are on economic issues.

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          1. Danielmedas1

            How old are you

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          2. Philip.R.M.Hunt

            I have a lot of Trump supporting relatives but none of them have every said that they think liberals support murdering them. They are pretty hard-core populist right, but they are not very paranoid, which I think can be a factor. Actually, one relative that does run a little paranoid said to me after I asked her not to go to the J6 rally because I thought it could get violent, she lashed out "I thought that you wanted all of us Trump supporters dead." I never said anything to give her that idea. But it is not the first time she showed signs of paranoia.

            Are you sure you heard your liberal family members correctly? I have the opposite experience - I never met a liberal who does support general violence against Trump supporters. However, it is a fairly widespread opinion on the left, center and non-populist right that the J6 insurrections should have been met with more force and that the police should have use more force to stop people said they who were trying to hang Mike Pence and put a bullet in Pelosi's head. Perhaps that what more of what your liberal family members said.

            My populist right family members have many times asked me if I heard something outrageous that some liberal said. I ask where they heard it and then go find a video clip of it. Without fail, the actual statement is a lot milder than what the family member remembered. Sometimes it is even the polar opposite of what they remember. They are always astonished when this happens, so I don't think they are lying. They just remember it wrong. It is just confirmation bias. If a person already has a narrative in their head, their mind tends to fit the bits of what they hear to match the narrative, even if that distorts what they actually heard. It can happen to anyone if one is not careful and diligent to counter it.

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      5. Philip.R.M.Hunt

        No, it is easy to understand that the populist right hates the other 2/3s of the country. I think everyone has figured that out. I think what most sane, rational people have a hard time understanding is how do the populist right think support for Trump will deliver any meaningful results for them? Trump only delivered fantasies and lots of hot angry rhetoric (i.e. Owning the libs). The wall never got built. That was his number 1 promise. Mexico never paid for it. Lost the next three election cycles.

        The answer is there is no rational plan. The populist right are not people guided by reason but by faith. They believe if they put their faith in God, Trump and Q (it all blurs together for them) then it will all magically work out. God/Trump/Q has a secret plan, trust the plan.

        If the populist right were rational, they would consider that DeSantis has delivered more substantive culture war victories for the populist right. That is not going to happen. Trump is better at the angry rhetoric and selling fantasy than DeSantis and that is what the populist right wants more.

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        1. Billy Zammit

          you say: "I think what most sane, rational people have a hard time understanding is how do the populist right think support for Trump will deliver any meaningful results for them"

          Your trauma *is* results. It's been 8 years and he still lives in your heads rent free. Even if Trump disappeared tomorrow, the United States will never again be like it was in the pre Trump days.

          you say: "The wall never got built. That was his number 1 promise. Mexico never paid for it. Lost the next three election cycles."

          1. Don't care
          2. Don't care
          3. Don't care

          "Owning the libs" is not a means to an end, it's an end into and of itself

          you say: "they would consider that DeSantis has delivered more substantive culture war victories for the populist right"

          My entire family are libs. They hate DeSantis but they would love it if he knocked off Trump. I know liberals who literally had to go to therapy due to how much they were traumatized by Trump, nobody feels that way about DeSantis.

          Furthermore, DeSantis is an ally of Paul Ryan, Jeb Bush and Ken Griffin. I consider all three of those men to be ever bit as bad as liberals, if not worse.

          I also dispute that DeSantis won any meaningful culture war victories. Disney kept their tax district and donated lavishly to DeSantis' inauguration, they seem pretty happy with him

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          1. Brian

            You explained your position very clearly to me the other day in a different article (and I appreciate that), but I just have to jump in one more time here.

            You say "Your trauma *is* results. ", and "Imagine you believed that liberals were inherently and irredeemably evil and that you were locked in an existential war with them."
            Then you admit that "My entire family are libs"
            Now, I get the personal level of hate here. You hate your family and want to hurt, harm, and traumatize -your family- as much as possible.
            If only you could just focus on hurting and traumatizing your family and leave the people of the United States (of whatever political stripe) out of it.

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          3. Philip.R.M.Hunt

            So we agree that the populist right does not really care if any substantive goals are achieved, so long as the libs are owned.

            Your family may not be representative. Check around the internet. I see the farther left the pundit, the more likely they are to fear DeSantis as "Trump, but competent." The center-right pundits don't fear him so much and mostly think he is the only Republican that has a chance of winning the general election. The center-right were not very opposed to Trumpian polices, were willing to tolerate his boorish behavior, but were appalled by his lawlessness and disregard for the rule of law. Upholding rule of law is the primary concern of the center-right. DeSantis is not likely to attempt a J6 insurrection and no one would obey his orders if he did - he does not have the Jedi mind control power that Trump has over his followers.

            You dispute that DeSantis won any meaningful culture war victories? Did Trump do anything more substantive on that front? Did Trump get a Stop Woke Act passed? I suppose Trump did get the First Step Act passed that reversed what he called "the ruthless Clinton Crime Bill" that was disproportionately sending black men to jail. Oh wait - isn't that kind of pro-woke?

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      6. Andrew M

        Ok, Billy, I'll bite on your bait. Your reply says a whole lot about you, and nothing about Trump. Please expand on your assertion that he '"owns the libs" better than anyone in history'. Or even better, just explain how he's better at "owning the libs" than DeSantis, who, unlike Trump, has actually succeeded in turning his petty grievances against liberals into actual legislation.

        I'm definitely not a liberal, and I've never been a Never Trumper. All he needs to do to gain my respect is grow up, grow a spine, show some evidence that he knows how to read and understand what he's read, and can make somewhat intelligent decisions. Hell, even to do more than parrot back what the last person who complimented him says would be an improvement.

        Finally, since you mentioned it, if "owning the libs" is your sole criteria for a leader, what are you willing to sacrifice to achieve that goal? So far under Trump I've seen willingness to eliminate fiscal responsibility, economic prosperity, global prestige and influence, federalism, the Ten Comandments, the Constitution, and at least half a million lives of his supporters. How much more is worth it, just to make some liberals angry, hmmm?

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      7. D

        I feel pity for someone as lost and hateful as you are. Jesus did not lead you down this path.

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  2. Jane_from_CO

    I guess I come from the Sgt Joe Friday school of thought. Just the facts ma’am. I’m pretty cynical so I tend to reserve judgment on what I read or hear - from anyone. The opinioneers on Fox or anywhere are just that. Don’t expect facts from people like that. And now everyone knows exactly what they think of their viewers. Good riddance.

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  3. Sjsarich

    Unfortunately the Dominion revelations are very dispiriting and inexcusable but Fox News for the ultra-right is no different than the ‘feed the beast’ outlet MSNBC is for the deranged Left. However, an analysis of the downfall of CNN, who shills vehemently for every crackpot ‘threat to democracy’ trope posited would be an interesting read. Is CNN less a cheerleader than any of the hucksters on MSNBC or is the style & presentation more preferable.
    The threat to democracy is real as practiced by the ‘give the masses the red meat they desire,’ media of both the Left & the Right. A pox on both houses!

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    1. Mick Givens

      Comparing Fox News to MSNBC is like comparing the Grand Canyon to a pothole. There has never been any evidence, at all, that MSNBC hosts and anchors don't believe what they are saying is true. That's a category Fox lives in by itself. Fox knowingly, admittedly, lies to its audience.

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      1. Sjsarich

        Then MSNBC on air ‘talent’ is delusional.

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        1. Mick Givens

          No argument from me there.

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  4. Jim.H

    I wouldn’t be so sure on which way the law suit will do just yet…discovery can be an eye opening event.

    But it is fun to watch all the other media’s obsession with this….envy is such a powerful force.

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      Dave in Houston

      "Envy"? I don't think anyone envies Fox's position right now.

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      1. Jim.H

        Well, will see…..MSNBC, CNN, and other media helped cover what could be the greatest scandal ever…..that COVID looks like it did come from a lab in China…..What are we at, 8 million dead so-far.

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          Dave in Houston

          They were just reporting what the government was telling them. And there are still agencies and institutions that are sticking to the story about it not being a lab leak.

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          1. Jim.H

            Ok…so I guess it’s just the media job to report what the government tells them and not look at anything else.

            I wonder if we ever would have found out about Watergate under that model.

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    Soniak21

    >>In a universe where Fox competes not just with talk radio, not just with Newsmax, not just with mega-sites like The Daily Wire, Breitbart, and Gateway Pundit, but with populist Republican politicians who’ve fashioned their own media “brands,” how could the network possibly succeed financially by telling the uncomfortable truth?<<

    I have one answer to that, though I'm not sure it would be a persuasive (or profitable) answer for Fox. My answer is that Fox could've chosen to remain at least SEMI-credible to normies. I consider myself a normie. When I debate folks from the far-Right (as I sometimes do on Twitter; God help me), I often ask them to cite a source for what they're claiming. If they cited an article from Fox, I'd at least give that some consideration as evidence of something possibly-factual. If they cited something from Breitbart or Gateway Pundit, I'd do my best to laugh them off of Twitter.

    Is there really no monetary advantage in staying on the right side of that credibility line? Sadly, perhaps not. My instinct is to feel like it could've been a valuable niche to occupy: a staunchly Right-wing outlet that nevertheless isn't completely nuts. But I don't know the numbers like the Fox folks do. (If there's anything they actually care about, it seems to be the numbers.) So perhaps "completely nuts" really is the profitable way to go. But I sure hope the Dominion lawsuit will take a step toward changing that.

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      Collin

      The people who are most interested in cable news tend to be those who are deeply interested in politics. For Fox, those individuals are the ones who are highly interested in right wing causes. Couple that with the trend of politically disinterested people not needing news to get info about events, to get networks that cater to a hyper specific group. That collection, for Fox, has had an interest in conspiracy theories, for the last 15 years. The Murdochs were just giving their couple percent slice what they wanted.

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  6. Hikingguy

    Speaking of Fox News-did anybody else catch Bannon's act yesterday at CPAC? The orcs are biting each other. What fun! The GQP is already dead. The corpse twitches, but that is all. I hope and expect a decent center-right party emerges from the coffin. You see, I am a Democrat. To me that means business owners and cultural conservatives and fiscal hawks deserve representation. I take shots at Republicans, but I sympathize indeed with the people who think their party has been appropriated by fascist twerps such as MTG-and are sick about it.

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  7. Belisarius.Aves

    Two corresponding trends. The Fox News (and all cable news) is an older segment (just look at the ads) but old people vote.
    https://money.usnews.com/money/retirement/aging/articles/why-older-citizens-are-more-likely-to-vote

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    Gbr0wn

    "Either one can choose to do the right thing and sink into irrelevance as their constituents flee for more simpatico, less responsible mouthpieces or each can do the wrong thing and retain their market share for a while longer, at great civic cost."
    So Fox is 'exposed' (it wasn't obvious all along?) to be just like all corporate outlets: Entertainment/pandering for the most part. More likely this is the moment that all outlets join CNN in working to re-establish their credibility - and chastened audiences learn to "consider the source" when turning on corporate news. Adagio needs to realize: times change, you can't extrapolate one trend without also extrapolating all related trends (which is impossible)

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    O.M.G. calling from Vaudeville, AZ

    Hmmn, what to do about an evil man that brings poison gas and a mask to a knife fight…To wit, fight The Devil with fire, that’s what. Donald J Trump is the kinda guy that kicks and grabs another man’s balls in a cage fight. Ronnie Reagan wannabe DeSantis has already forfeited the match between us and them suckers vs fighters, by trying to play on both sides of the political mine field at the same time, just not having the balls to call out the other teams sicko fans as being just that…SICK AND CRAZY. It is weird enough that we are already talking about next years Big Game, as if only one between two toilet paper tigers Trump or DeSantis….neither have even already won the conference title. As much as I would love to see the coming demise, and I do mean demise, of that filthy foreigner Rupert Murdoch, as one raised Roman Catholic, I am still to actually do as commanded, and “pray for our sinners”…praying that is the dead soul man walking has a literal burning bush, come to Jesus moment, goes on The Telly, and makes like a sincere Jimmy Swagger and tells the old man down the road, I mean couch potatoes FOX[Y] junkies “I HAVE SINNED AGAINST YOU”….oh, and settles up with the good people at Dominion for a hefty tune, making up his misbegotten fortune selling porn, I mean propaganda, for a misspent life…and the pathetic excuse for a human being donates the rest of his fortune to charity, and a rela anti Trumper for POTUS campaign on a new and soul cleansed FOX[Y] News. I do love how the Fab Four pictured above one does not feel like one is looking up another man’s crotch…but me thinks the fox execs are going to tell the bubble headed bleached blond bomb shell to pull up her skirt even more for the next photo shoot, or just don’t wear panties at all next time…that will get the old timers skulls full of mush to stick it out with The Network for life, and win a new horn dog crowd for the next generation…that is until ChatBoxT.V. becomes even better than the real thing. So, speaking of your allusion to people’s just having to die Cato before FOX news is finally going spiraling down the toilet….To wit, I don’t see much hope for the future of of a political party who has a wild and crazy liar for its figurehead and the poor little rich boy just dying to be like him, thinking he only has to be more clever..for all the good DeSantis is trying to do because he has an Ivy League education and intelligence …Ronnie boy is acting like the class clown at Trump University….God help U.S. For the love of God and country please Merrick Garland INDICT TRUMP, or forgive me Jesus, please make like Calgon and take…gotta run on, I need a new iPad made in Chy Na. Thanks for taking my rant Boiling Frogs. Praise Allah Pundit. Peace through superior mental firepowerShow less

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    DougCLE

    “Either one (Fox or GOP) can choose to do the right thing and sink into irrelevance as their constituents flee for less responsible mouthpieces or each can do the wrong thing and retain their market share for a while longer, at great civic cost. However they choose, this trajectory ends badly for the country.”

    I can’t speak to Fox, but the GOP doesn’t have to sink into irrelevance if it sheds the “disgruntled old white guy” demographic that drives its MAGA wing. There are other demographics out there. Immigrants - not just Hispanic, but Asian, Indian, Middle Eastern, even Eastern European - all tend to run conservative. (Or at least, more conservative than today’s Democrats, which maybe isn’t saying much.) Even Black Americans are more conservative than their strong support for the Dems would suggest.

    Immigrants are the way the country is trending, here in the first part of the 21st century, just as it was in the first part of the 20th. The GOP’s current model of catering to an aging, shrinking demographic just isn’t sustainable, regardless of how hard it caters to them. That doesn’t have to be the end, though. If the GOP could just see its way past the needs of the moment, there’s a bright (and much healthier) future for a conservative party smart enough to embrace this change.

    At this point, I think that can only happen *after* the Trump/MAGA thing burns itself out, which probably won’t be for awhile yet. The pols need to see the current model failing before they embrace a new one. (And no, Pat, that is not going to come about by a few hundred conservative Dispatchers all voting D in one cycle.) It will happen, though, or the GOP will fade into obscurity and be replaced by another conservative party.

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    1. Avatar photo
      Logical

      C. 2042-'46 Majority-Minority

      Unlikely I would be around to see it.

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      Kmregan7

      You'd think they know that already - wasn't there a bunch of research years ago about which way the GOP should be going and who they're losing (women, young people, etc.) and how they could turn the ship, so to speak and gain more voters/open the tent? I'll have to look it up, but I could have sworn that was based on exit polling and such. And then they instead decided to double down on the "disgruntled white guy"

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        DougCLE

        I think it’s just human nature not to change until you absolutely have to.

        The Contract With America - love it or hate it - was one such change. By appealing to the disgruntled (less-old, then) blue-collar white guys who’d formerly been Democratic stalwarts, Newt and the gang managed to reinvigorate the GOP, which back then was still mostly run by well-meaning but out-of-touch blue-bloods (think Bush 41). This carried on the work Reagan had started, but whereas Reagan’s Morning In America message had been one of hope, Newt’s was… less so. Nevertheless, it succeeded in re-energizing the GOP, in ‘94 and for years to come. It also, almost inevitably, led to Trump and MAGA.

        I think we are at another moment (or approaching another moment) in history where the GOP is going to be forced to look around and see that what it has is no longer working. When that happens, I expect another Contract-type sea change, hopefully in the opposite direction this time. But they aren’t going to go there until circumstances force them to, because just that’s how people are.

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