Beyond Originalism?

David and Sarah discuss the political ramifications of the coronavirus outbreak, Adrian Vermeule’s essay on ...

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David and Sarah discuss the political ramifications of the coronavirus outbreak, Adrian Vermeule’s essay on originalism, and what conservatives get wrong about masculinity.

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  1. Avatar photo
    Brian Levy

    Sarah, I'd be interested in your assessment of the "satire" question (unless you were just being satirical) after you take a look at this article by Prof. Vermuele and Cass Sunstein about the Morality of Admin Law (cited in Vermuele's essay). https://harvardlawreview.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/1924-1978_Online.pdf. Professor Sunstein might have been on board part of the way with Vermuele, but his view of the Atlantic essay (and the whole concept of nudging) is probably best summarized by Hall & Oates, "I can't go for that".

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    WKDawson

    pre-2016, I think Sarah would definitely be right, we'd probably all think it were satire. However, the point of satire is to go way over the top (often in a humorous way) to point out the absurdity of a particular way of thinking. Ever since Trump has been elected, it is difficult to find that funny bone because every time it seems like it must have gone so hyperbolic that even Trump would not go there, it seems like the Trump administration seems to exceed that limit. At that point, it is not funny anymore.

    I hope Sarah is right, then I would be able to laugh again.

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  3. Kit Johnson

    When Sarah Isgur said that Vermeule's article must be satire because "no one could be this stupid" all I could think was "Oh, my sweet summer child. What do you know of stupidity?"

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    Kevin Johnson

    Another excellent pod. I like the varied topics and just the slightest virus politics part before changing the subject.

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    An Actual Cat

    I’m surprised that David glossed right over the question about the discussion of masculinity in the 90s on the right, dismissing it as something that didn’t exist. I certainly remember an evangelical organization called Promise Keepers that was filling stadiums and catching even main stream media attention. Maybe it’s not strictly political, but it was driving some amount of thought at the time.

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      David French vertical-nib Author

      I attended Promise Keepers' events. They certainly called people to be better men, but they were not so much about the nature of masculinity itself (at least in my experience.)

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        David French vertical-nib Author

        To be honest, they didn't make a huge impression on me.

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          An Actual Cat

          I don’t know much about the organization beyond what I saw on the news back then, but it sounded like their concept of masculinity as a force that could be shaped and used toward a good end wasn’t far off from what you talk about. The events themselves always looked like an evangelical Tony Robbins seminar.

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  6. Jonathan Walker

    Its tough, some of that article felt like satire but I also think there are a lot of people who might be dumb enough to really believe it. There are quite a few people on the left who seem to think that the power they want to grant the Federal Government will always be theirs, so why wouldn't there be those on the right who believe the same thing?

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    Reader John

    I thought Sarah was being naïve about the almost perfect alignment between intelligence and common sense, but Randy Barnett's Atlantic response to Vermeule Friday raises an interesting possibility: Vermeule is very specifically trolling Mark Tushnet, who in May of 2016 (https://balkin.blogspot.com/2016/05/abandoning-defensive-crouch-liberal.html) declared progressive victory and goaded his fellows onto fully realizing the Glorious Revolution. So maybe Sarah's instincts about trolling were right, but it was more intramural than pan-trolling.

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    Adicesa14

    Professor Vermeule is ‘trolling’ progressives. “Common good” is similar to “Social Justice.” Hence, Professor Vermeule’s suggestion is a “living constitution’ for conservatives. “Living constitution” has no sensible meaning. It is a ridiculous non-basis for decision. It allows a court majority to do as it wishes. Now, that conservatives appear to have the Judicial majority, progressives will be apoplectic over this!

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    JDW

    Sarah being a young woman has not yet come to the conclusion that stupidity has no bottom. Any defense of a position posited on "people can't be that stupid" is disqualified. David being more seasoned like me understands this from experience. Good podcast.

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    1. Kit Johnson

      Yep.

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  10. Melissa

    Creepy. Creepy, creepy, creepy. I think it's a bit dangerous to relegate fanatical ideas to the fringe. It used to be that Birtherism was a fringe idea; it used to be that we didn't have a President willing to call all of the media fake; it used to be that we never had a President in office so callow to try to advance the idea that bribing Ukraine to sway an election was copacetic; it used to be that the President didn't joke about just kind of staying in office indefinitely.

    It it was published in the Atlantic, I don't know that it can be all that fringe. To be honest, the article might have a few too many big words for Trump to completely wrap his head around. But the gist of it, though, is enough to get a man like him drooling. If he can't help himself crowing about his pandemic ratings being better than the Bachelor Finale, imagine how giddy he would get coming face to face with the idea that maybe, just maybe, he could have a shot at being a monarch?

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      JDW

      Trump has no philosophy other than self-aggrandizement. His acolytes who are desperate to not be seen as fools for following him off the cliff are very creative. They keep taking Trump's random meanderings as data points try to construct a theory around it.

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