Never Forget

Jonah begins today’s Ruminant on a reflective note, recalling where he was on 9/11 and ...

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Jonah begins today’s Ruminant on a reflective note, recalling where he was on 9/11 and how the tragedy affected him personally and professionally. Afterward, things get ranty, as Jonah digs into the constitutionality of federal vaccine mandates, the pervasive myth that he doesn’t criticize Joe Biden, and the question of whether America should export democracy to illiberal countries. Why is neoconservatism still so misunderstood? Is Biden really a Clinton in disguise? And how have we reached the point where the classic “Sideshow Bob Roberts” episode of The Simpsons seems more like real life than a cartoon satire?

Show Notes:

– Jonah reflects on 9/11

– The Dispatch Podcast on 9/11 and Biden’s grim summer

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  1. GregS

    Hoo boy, I have a lot of problems with this episode.

    Jonah, you love to talk about the constitution as this quasi-religious original wisdom handed down from on high, freedom and liberty as the highest ideals known to man, and so on. And *I agree with you*! Hearing the preamble to the constitution makes me choke up a bit every time.

    And then, you talk about Pinochet and Franco as being better for our interests than a left wing government. "Yeah they did some bad things, but it was in our interest that they stay in power."

    So your high ideals stop at the water's edge. Yes, freedom and liberty are important and basic, but only if you're lucky enough to be born an American. Everyone else - screw you, your freedom and liberty matter not a whit, we only care about "our interests".

    How about the people of Chile get to decide if they want a right-wing dictator who murders his enemies? How about we don't help him kill his own people because it's "in our interest"? Are you even sure it's in our interest? Was is it in our interest to fight in Vietnam? Is the current Vietnamese government about as good a regime as one we supported could ever have been?

    Supporting Saddam was "in our interest" until it wasn't?

    In Iran we orchestrated a coup to remove the democratically elected Mossadegh (who was no islamist) to make the Shah stronger to protect our oil interests. And then it became in our interest to keep a dictator in power. And this led to the revolution and Khamenei and a far worse long term outcome for us and for the Iranian people.

    Our track record is poor.

    And defending it with your BS realpolitik argument is a betrayal of your principles of classical liberalism.

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    Joel Stewart

    Found your 20th anniversary event, Jonah: https://www.honobiabigfoot.com/festival

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  3. jeem

    Here are a couple of contradictory requests:

    1. I really want an ad-free pod feed. Would happily pay extra.
    2. This, and all podcast hosting sites, need a list of advertiser links, with their discount codes. I listen to pods in the car or while gaming or doing chores ("yeah right" - the couch), and can't stop to type in a URL while doing so. What was the name of that life insurance company?

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  4. Anonymous

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    1. GregS

      Sorry, not "the shah was installed by us" but "the shah was strengthened and our oil interests protected"

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    Bill Dyer (aka Beldar)

    Worth the price of admission for the phrase "the Michael Dukaki of the world."

    What a deadly disease THAT is!

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  6. GregS

    Total #Americans killed in Afghanistan in August 2021: 13
    Americans ages 0-64 killed by COVID in August 2021: 12,000
    Americans ages 65+ killed by COVID in August 2021: 18,000

    But sure, focusing on COVID means that Biden is just trying to change the subject for political reasons.

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  7. Richard Fulmer

    On Jonah's "one cheer for dictators" thoughts, here's a quote from Robert D. Kaplan:
    "In Iraq, order, even of totalitarian dimensions, turned out to be more humane that the lack of order that followed."

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  8. Andrew L

    I assume that you believe in the importance of ultimate civilian control of the military. Given that 3 presidents in a row have campaigned on getting us out of Afghanistan and that the war was unpopular, how do you reconcile a belief in civilian military control with your belief that Biden shouldn't have left?

    I can understand a short run "the President needs to overrule the people as commander-in-chief" position, but this spans 10+ years. How are we the people supposed to retain ultimate control if multiple presidents of different parties can Lucy-with-football the American people indefinitely with your support?

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    1. Richard Fulmer

      There's no question about civilian control over the military. No one is suggesting that the Joint Chiefs should have overruled Biden's decision.

      Yes, the last three Presidents, along with a majority of Americans, thought we should get out. I think that they were wrong. And I believe that a President who understood what is at stake in Afghanistan could have explained his/her reasoning to the American people and won back majority support.

      Here, briefly, is what we face - or could face - now that we've left:
      - Mass murder by the Taliban
      - Mass rape
      - The torture and death of thousands of our Afghani allies
      - The suppression of women
      - A haven for al Qaeda and other terrorist organizations
      - A well-armed Taliban
      - Possible destabilization of a nuclear-armed Pakistan
      - The loss of military bases in a strategically important part of the world
      - The loss of our Allies' faith in our word
      - Our allies making the best deals they can with China, Russia, Turkey, and Iran
      - An emboldened Russia threatening Ukraine, Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia
      - An emboldened China threatening its neighbors
      - An emboldened Iran threatening its neighbors

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    Jack

    Best quotes from Sideshow Bob Roberts:
    Only Turkeys have Left Wings - title of Birch Barlow’s bestselling book
    That Barlow’s a right-wing crackpot. He said Tes Kennedy lacked integrity - Carl
    Let’s just junk those dumbocrats and their bleeding-heart smellfare program - Birch Barlow
    It’s high time people realized we conservatives aren’t all Johnny Hatemongers and Charlie Bible Thumps, or even, God forbid, George Bushes - Sideshow Bob
    Attempted murder. Now, honestly what is that? Do they give a Nobel Prize for attempted chemistry? - Sideshow Bob
    Well, despite Bart’s objections, the people of South Africa can now vote in free democratic elections - Mrs. Krabaple
    If that is the way the winds are blowing, let no one say I don’t also blow - Joe Quimby
    A fine Mahoke to you all - Sideshow Bob
    No children have ever meddled with the Republican Party and lived to tell about it - Sideshow Bob
    TONIGHT: Mayoral Debates TOMORROW: Mass Wedding of Cult Members - Springfield Community Center sign
    Well, he framed me for armed robbery, but man, I’m aching for that upper-class tax cut - Krusty the Clown
    You were Ronny to his Nancy. Sonny to his Cher. Ringo to his rest of the Beatles - Bart and Lisa
    You want the truth? You can’t handle the truth. No truth-handler, you. Bah! I deride your truth-handling abilities - Sideshow Bob
    Your guilty conscience may force you to vote Democratic, but deep down inside, you long for a cold hearted Republican to lower taxes, brutalize criminals, and tule you like a king - Sideshow Bob
    Also, the Republican Party Headquarters scenes are a perfect example of Jonah’s smoke-filled rooms.

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    Ben Connelly

    So that’s what you meant about your father and the Shah. Interesting.

    Beatles photos with Ringo replaced by your dog sounds like a great addition to the Dispatch merch store.

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