The Remnant of Misfit Onlookers

Today’s Ruminant features Jonah amid a group of silent watchers, staring at him while on ...

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Today’s Ruminant features Jonah amid a group of silent watchers, staring at him while on mute in a Zoom meeting as he speaks to himself for an hour in the basement of an undisclosed location. On the docket today: Jonah returns to one of the most interesting political conundrums of our moment. Was our class of political nutjobs always crazy, or did they only get crazy in the last few years? On a completely unrelated note, why is Matt Gaetz the way he is? And, of course, Jonah speaks to the dangers of “thinking about politics like you’re watching a movie.”

Show Notes:

–      The ongoing Matt Gaetz scandal

–      Politico’s summary of John Boehner’s new book, On the House: A Washington Memoir

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  1. Avatar photo
    Kevin Johnson

    This was great, especially the comments on the podcast with Shadi, which was fantastic. You lament topics not developed deeply, but that is easily remedied. I would love him to be a repeat guest. Unlike some wise commenters here, I think Shadi has thought deeply about the conflict between democracy and classical liberalism...and got it badly wrong. Since he is smart, funny, and apparently a person of goodwill, it is incredibly important and valuable to hear him out. Many people on the left with very illiberal tendencies are less willing to come right out with their “individual rights are overrated” position or even deny it when one points out that this flows directly from their positions (Critical Race Theory, for example.) So let’s have some more rounds with Shadi. The illiberal views he shares with some on the right seem to me a real threat at their core, even if they lead him away from parts of the woke cultural revolution. Respectful probing of these ideas with an intelligent interlocutor is very welcome. Thanks.

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    Israel Bigelow

    Jonah's taste in diet soda is proof we need democracy. Coke zero is bleh!

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  3. Ben Moser

    Jonah I think your concerns about majoritarian mob rule versus the bill of rights have some merit. But they’re undermined by the ahistorical nature of the evidence that you try to use. First and most of the southern states pre-Civil War there was a large contingent of small holding or non-property and whites who didn’t have a strong attachment to the chattel slavery system. And in fact the continuance of that system stunted the economic development of those states for generations. If you combine a black population that was actually allowed to vote with even a relatively small percentage of his middle to lower class weights and most of those states you’re not going to see a large majority keeping for keeping slavery. Ask David French about the history of the unionism in East Tennessee during the war as an example. Furthermore can you actually provide an example of a state that maintains liberalism without using democratic underpinnings to do so? If you look at states like turkey or hungry what’s your notice if you actually study the record is that Victor Orban’s party had to rig the election’s by allowing themselves political power without a political majority. The need to get a political majority is a ball work for liberalism it’s not a perfect one but I will Churchill the best one we found. I think the only possible example you could use would be Singapore but the liberalism there is not perfect and the democracy is there there is not exactly absent.

    Secondly where have you been living the past 20 years where you think our overarching problem is majoritarian tyranny? Because from a liberal‘s point of view I had to watch a guy elected by a minority of the country start of war of choice that ended disastrously. Then I had to watch another guy elected without a majority of the country ban people from coming to the country just because of where they were from. You’re legit anti-Trump credential ‘s aren’t under question here. But we’ve also had a 70% consensus the last decade or so around things like universal background checks for gun sales or closing the gun show loophole. Is 10 years not enough time for the water or the tea to sit in the saucer and cool. But instead we had to watch us Senate Republican caucus which emphatically represents us a small minority of the country block legislation that the majority of the country wants over and over and over again. And it’s not just negative power that the Senate Republicans have had we had to watch them install a supreme court justice in flagrant violation of their own past comments,
    Thus making it even harder for majority to ever actually get what they want ( see the pre-Barrett decision to make it even easier to egregiously gerrymander and thus thwart the will of the majority).

    You’re off used line about a majority being able to pee and the other sides Cheerios is funny and quippy but for the last 20 years what we’ve mostly seen is that a minority has gotten to pee in the majorities Cheerios. Now like Steve Hayes I am Wisconsinite and thus a firm believer that Cheerios go best with 2% milk but I think we can all agree that if we had to pick between a majority being the one getting to do the peeing and a minority you should let the majority have charge of the bowl.

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  4. Mike Darnell

    The only difference I could discern was coffee rather than bourbon on the rocks.

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  5. Karin

    Marred only by Jonah gratuitously referring to the subjects of the photos that Gaetz shared on the House floor as being of his ‘slatterns’. I consider that an unwarranted conclusion. Let’s keep the focus of our disgust on Matt Gaetz and not fall into slut shaming to make the story more salacious.

    He is bad enough all by himself, and even without sexual scandal, as Jonah writes.

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    1. linda

      I kinda like slut shaming myself.

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      Kevin Johnson

      Jonah said some of Gaetz’ partners (not all) were apparently prostitutes. I don’t see why mentioning that, using a different word, is “slut shaming” or inappropriate. It is a relevant, alleged fact, which Jonah appropriately qualified. If anything, Jonah is appropriately shaming Gaetz, not his partners. Many folks find paying for sex shameful as well as often (though not always) exploitative of the weak. So that allegation against him is material, not salacious. And the allegation of sex with a minor (not sure if that was also allegedly prostitution) is even more serious. Thanks.

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    3. Avatar photo
      Tracie

      I didn't even know "slattern" could be used as a noun. I've heard of "slatternly."

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      1. linda

        read more Charles Dickens. He's all about the slatterns. Apparently (according to him) Olde London was full of them.

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        Aylene Wright

        It's a word used in Oliver Twist to refer to a character who is never directly called a prostitute in the book, but Dickens stated elsewhere that she was.

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      3. Karin

        Merriam-Webster: Definition of slattern
        : an untidy slovenly woman
        also : SLUT, PROSTITUTE

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          Tracie

          Not sure this assumption that prostitutes are untidy is well-founded. It's definitely not true that all untidy women are prostitutes.

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  6. Jeffrois

    A Morning Ruminant (before G-File) is the breakfast before a competition. It's fine, Wheaties are fine.

    An Evening Ruminant (after G-File) is a glass of port and cigar after defeating all your enemies real and imagined.

    Thought is work, compressing thought into words is toil. You're always tired doing the Ruminant and your staff are kept up late, but I've always seen this as the postgame press conference—the victory lap. You've already put your best out there, now you're talking about it. And by taking about it, we learn a different kind of lesson.

    This Ruminant is the meta/behind the scenes that helps us mere listeners learn how to think. The Ruminant takes the Remnant Podcast/G-File "What" and adds the "How" and "Why". The Remnant shares ideas, the Ruminant processes ideas.

    All that said, another great podcast that was a pleasure to listen to—thanks, Jonah!

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  7. Avatar photo
    Tracie

    What I learned in this podcast: I've been pronouncing "remora" wrong since I first googled the little fish after finding them referenced in this book review:

    "...Henry Wadsworth Longfellow’s way of explaining that he was too busy to attend [the Gettysburg Address] thanks to “an unusual pressure of those numberless nothings, which like the remora, impede us as we sail the sea of life.”"

    https://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/04/books/04masl.html

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/remora

    Per the new format, I kinda miss the sense that JG was just alone and ranting into a recording device - especially since I usually listen to the Saturday Remnant when I'm winding my brain down. It's on the opposite end of TD from Advisory Opinions, which requires early, organized, well-rested brain. And now I might have to read the G-file, since we'll no longer be getting a summary, but rather some brewing themes.

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    Merrijane

    I wish Jonah would provide a citation for the saying that the best form of government is the good czar. I’ve heard him say it a couple of times but I can’t find an original quote or adage anywhere.

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  9. Kurt Schilling

    It is said that you can fool some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time. Congress Critter Gaetz kinda demonstrates this. Great Uncle Robin opined that "People are dumber than dog S**t! which describes the voters that elected this sleazy person to Congress.

    As to whether our current class of political nutjobs always being crazy: Yep. Sure 'nuf. But the folk that voted for these critters are mentally challenged even more.

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    CynthiaW

    I found Shadi's adherence to democracy rather weak. First he said it was the prime value, overriding the classical liberal commitment to individual rights. But then, when Jonah mentioned that various states or municipalities could, democratically, decide on how that community would operate, Shadi mewled about how Wyoming voters might democratically decide on stuff leftists don't like, and that would be so wrong.

    Funny, that, from a guy who supports Sharia law if it's put in place "democratically." One might almost get the idea that the young man is just an authoritarian after all, but, more charitably, I think he's just a young man who hasn't thought through all the implications of his various ideas and views.

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      Tracie

      We don't attack orthodox Jews for following their laws, or good Catholics for following the Pope's edicts, or Evangelicals for trying to get abstinence-only sex ed curriculum in schools. Why is Sharia law different? If you believe in the Constitution, as I recall Shadi clearly indicated he did, you don't support the establishment of an Islamic state - which is the only way you could enforce Sharia law on everybody.

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        CynthiaW

        I think Shadi contradicted himself. He did say he supported the Constitution, but he also seemed to accept the concept of Islamism as a political-religious dictatorship which, among other issues, categorically rejects the idea of freedom of religion. (There have been historical circumstances in which this was true of Judaism and Christianity, but it is not the United States today.)

        If you're a person threatened with death because you decided to change your religion from Islam - Ayaan Hirsi Ali, for example - it's small comfort if the threat comes from a government that was voted in.

        As I concluded in the comment above, I don't think Shadi has entirely thought things through.

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