Stirewaltisms: The Space Between ‘Back the Blue’ and ‘Defund the Police’

How Republicans botched the issue of police brutality, and Democrats have botched the issue of crime.

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Police tape at a crime scene. (Photo by Brandon Bell/Getty Images)

There is a diversity of opinion among Americans about police, with strong currents relating to ethnicity and partisanship running through them.

A recent poll from Quinnipiac University will tell you something you probably already know: The people who have the greatest confidence in police officers to do the right thing “almost all of the time” are Republicans (39 percent), white males (29 percent), and white Americans without college degrees (29 percent). Compare that to Democrats (9 percent), adults under the age of 35 (15 percent), and black Americans (11 percent). 

We are not here to explain why those differences exist, but certainly at least some substantial part of those differences relate to the real experiences Americans have. But not all of it, and maybe not even most of it. The 30-point delta between Republicans and Democrats almost certainly reflects assumptions from our highly partisan media and the politicization of the issue. 

But when we pull back just a bit, a clearer story emerges. Sixty-two percent of all Americans “trust the police to do what is right either almost all of the time or most of the time” while 36 percent “trust the police to do what is right either only some of the time or hardly ever.” Independent voters were less confident in police than Republicans by 22 points and 14 points more confident than Democrats.

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  1. Avatar photo
    Ben Connelly

    That was a really good answer to Earl King’s question

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  2. Avatar photo
    Collin

    Chris is right. There’s a distortion field around policing. A majority of Americans of all races do not want to defund the police, and they want more policing. However, they also want better policing. Police reform is popular too.

    The incidents that make the news are carried out by a small number of officers. Yet, cities diverge wildly in how good their policing is. The ones with issues are overrepresented in the incidents that make the news. This paper (https://scholarworks.uark.edu/edrepub/136/) ranks the 50 largest cities on a professionalism metric it created. Memphis, the city where the five officers killed that man, is in the bottom 15, sandwiched between Detroit and Jacksonville (you’re not great at policing, if you’re ranked near Detroit). That area clearly has a problem. Consequently, the broader difficulty might not be a national one but contained to specific locales. You wouldn’t know any of this, if you just listened to partisans.

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  3. Georges

    I’m having difficulty understanding the author’s claim that “back the blue” is out of touch with public opinion. Who will handle law enforcement & crime prevention if police forces do not? Most of us can not afford private security details nor do we want to live in a place where they are necessary. I suggest if more are dissatisfied with effectiveness of police forces it is bc the “defund the police” advocates have got their way.

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  4. Goatprairie

    Stirewalt botches the police question. The police aren't one percent of the problems of black Americans or any other Americans.
    Every instance of the police being so-called villains in the last five years first involved a perp who didn't do what he or she was ordered to do by the police. That goes for St George Floyd too who wasn't murdered but managed to get himself expired through his own stupid actions.
    That goes for the the person in Memphis who didn't obey orders. But since it was five black cops who acted badly, no riots.
    Stirewalt goes down a notch on my list of honorable news persons. He can't be trusted to report fairly on crime issues.

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    1. Avatar photo
      Mudskipper

      I am surely glad you are not serving on any police force.

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      1. Goatprairie

        If I were in charge of all the police forces across the country, there would be many thousands less dead young black males as well as innocent black women, children, and the elderly.
        It is lib policies that are getting many thousands of black citizens killed needlessly by allowing violent, feral, young black males to roam around America's cities inflicting immense harm on the places they inhabit.
        My stop and frisk programs, profiling, and curfews would cut the homicide rate drastically. As would stopping the revolving jail/prison door for violent criminals.
        Do a violent crime, you would regret it.

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      2. Georges

        Goatprairie’s positions seem harsh but they are accurate. (I will make an exception for the recent Memphis problem bc I am not yet in possession of a credible set of facts. Our super honest, accurate and reliable media are as usual not helping.)
        Even in cases where police misconduct can be proven - and there are not many - it is true that the arrestee’s reckless, dangerous behavior was a major if not dispositive factor.
        There is a great deal of self destructive behavior among our young black men. Taking mortal risks against long odds is a frequently recurring poor choice among them. When you lose you lose it all and there are no do-overs.
        We would do well to acknowledge these behaviors and start thinking of ways to prevent them. When you are pointing a deadly weapon at officers or fighting with them it is way too late.
        Blaming every problem on relatively infrequent police misconduct ignores this major factor and ensures we will never improve on a very ugly and difficult set of pathologies no matter what we change in our police forces.
        I do not guarantee a solution. I do guarantee many more years of carnage if we waste our time on non solutions.

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  5. Avatar photo
    Kevin Johnson

    Enlightening, as usual. I would add that lies, exaggeration, and hysteria about police driven by activists and accepted by good folk afraid of being called racists make it all much worse. We have a real problem with stereotyping of young black men, (including by black men themselves) based on both historic racism and the wildly disproportionate numbers of black men who are victims and perpetrators of violence. Facing these facts while reminding people that this disproportionate violence and victimization does NOT justify either rationally or morally suspecting all black males for the crimes of a small minority.

    Second, this stereotyping has not led to rampant police murder of blacks, and lying about this by POTUS and many others leads to more crime (Ferguson effect) and murder of black males by criminals less restrained by police presence, arrest, and prosecution. If you consider their involvement in murder and other violent crime, rather than percentage of the population, black males are shot by police less often than statistically predictable. Blacks are also younger on average than whites, leaving a higher proportion of young people more prone to violence. Dr. Roland Freyer of Harvard examined thousands of cases in major cities and found that, controlling for other factors, such as type of crime, cooperation with police, etc., police were more likely to use force in arresting black makes, but LESS likely to shoot them.

    One can debate exact stats, but the evidence is overwhelming that POTUS, civil rights activists, and celebrities such as Lebron James are lying or spreading lies they may believe when they say there is an epidemic of police murdering blacks. There are even videos of police killing whites in almost the exact way that George Floyd was murdered, but activists and the press make folks think this only happens to blacks. This doesn’t mean there is no problem with stereotyping or police misconduct. Just ask Senator Scott about driving, or walking, while being a black, male, U.S. Senator.

    Large majorities could be had for a lot of police reform, from better training, to better accountability (I’m looking at you, police unions!). Educated debate about police tactics, better use of social services, sentencing rules, immunity, bail, etc. could all prove useful.

    But none of this is possible during an anti-Police hysteria based on outright lies which leaves dangerous communities (where a lot of black folks live) increasingly vulnerable to criminals. Many good people will refuse to serve as police under these circumstances and those that do won’t engage in the kind of direct community policing which can prevent crime. People told they are being hunted down by racist police won’t provide evidence to jail criminals and will behave in ways more likely to lead to conflict with police ( at least that’s how I’d behave if I believed I were being hunted down.)

    We need more good people to face the threat of being called racist and say out loud what courageous people such as Glenn Loury, Roland Freyer, and Wilfred Reilly have been saying and demonstrating. Racism is real. Police misconduct and brutality are real. The stereotyping of black males is real, but none of this can be effectively dealt with through lies such as there being an epidemic of racist cops murdering blacks, and insistence on this lie even when blacks kill other blacks.

    Reporting and analyzing public perceptions without addressing lies and manipulation will not increase clarity, I’m afraid.

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    1. Goatprairie

      Racism i.e. Evil Whitey or bad police aren't together one percent of the problems of black Americans. Like all other demographics their problems are 99% self-inflicted. No different from the whites who kill themselves with opioids or meth.

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    2. Avatar photo
      Scarlette Tarte

      I think you are getting hung up on the murders bit.

      But I agree with you about ONE thing. Police are not just brutul and murderous to black folk...they are brutal and murderous to everyone. And more white people should be airing out their videos, their arrest for nothing, their unjust stops, their beat downs and yes, the police shooting of white people and Latinos ought to be getting some play.

      I grew up in New Orleans. Like all big cities, the police were brutul, corrupt and allowed to get away with everything. I have seen their brutality, their abuse of authority, and their hostility, not just to blacks, but to all they supposedly "serve".

      Myself, my husband and my kids have all been victims of it. My own story has to do with sexual overtures a cop made to me as a "deal" to get out of a ticket. I have written about this incident here on the Dispatch before, so I will not rehash the whole thing, but I reported him. For that, my kids were tailed by cops as they walked home from school, cops would park in front of our house and walk around it at all hours of the night, they tried to entice our dog away, probably to harm him...it was bad.

      Everyone I know, both black and white has a horror story about an encounter with a cop. And it's time we all start sharing them.

      In this very rural county I now reside in, I have seen cops shoot two people, killing one. Both were unarmed. Both were white.

      It is time we stop pretending that cops, as they are now organized, are here to either prevent crime, OR protect and serve us. They are not even under any legal obligation to protect us while we are in custody. Or if someone starts shooting at us ...no cop has to legally step in to protect us.

      It would benefit all of society if everyone would go public with just how badly they have been treated by police. Too many people get hung up on race, and they are perhaps embarrassed that they were treated as badly as those folks they consider as lessor, or perhaps they think they have to put up with brutal police and sometimes having it happen to them, because "after all, they have to be like that to keep black people in order". I don't know, but stats and other stories now trickling out tell us that police brutality is happening to everyone.

      Maybe a column on the Dispatch where the author asks us to relate our worst encounters with police could get the movement started.

      The police need major reforming. And I don't say that as a partisan, I say that as someone who has lived thru police brutality.

      No, we don't need to abolish them. But we do need to change a lot about their culture and about the way they do business.Show less

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      1. Avatar photo
        Anne W (Raw5254)

        Thanks for pointing out that it happens to blacks and whites. There was one story in particular that I heard about on the Mark Geragos podcast about a young, white salesman who had an encounter with the police while staying at a hotel. He ended up on the floor, crawling towards one of the cops, who fatally shot him. He was begging for his life.

        Personally, I haven’t had any really bad experiences, and I don’t think I know of anyone who has, although it might be that I just haven’t heard about it. But, I do know that the police are like any group in that there are good ones and bad ones. The problem is the bad ones carry guns, and they have a lot of power.

        I agree that reform is needed, and that includes a number of things that have already been mentioned. “No, we don't need to abolish them. But we do need to change a lot about their culture and about the way they do business.” Exactly.

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      2. Goatprairie

        "But I agree with you about ONE thing. Police are not just brutul and murderous to black folk...they are brutal and murderous to everyone. And more white people should be airing out their videos, their arrest for nothing, their unjust stops, their beat downs and yes, the police shooting of white people and Latinos ought to be getting some play."

        What color is the sky in that country where you now live? Are you sure you didn't accidentally take a rocket ship to the planet Zircon or some far distant galaxy?

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        1. Georges

          From what I can tell Scarlette has personally experienced every evil known to humankind in a lifetime much shorter than Methusaleh’s.

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          1. Goatprairie

            If the (white) police were brutal and murderous towards everyone, I think I would have heard quite a bit more about it than I've heard in my over seventy years of living in this part of the country. And yes, I've run into a cop who was nastier than he had to be for the situation (traffic violation).
            Nevertheless, except for one real nasty one, all the cops I've had confront me (all traffic violations) were polite and professional. I've never heard any family members, friends, co-workers, whomever in my area of over one hundred thousand metro population complain about brutal or unfair police officers. You'd think that if the local police were brutal to everybody, I'd have heard a story or two in my life.
            I think the great majority of the police are probably pretty much like what we see on Abram's shows or other cop shows. Or maybe like Joe Kenda. I think the percentage of really bad actors (and they're there as evidenced by the Memphis incident) is pretty small.
            I think Scarlette swallows whole the lib narrative of evil, racist policemen hunting down innocent black people to kill as she swallows all the other lib folderol about "racist" America being a hellhole for minorities i.e. non-whites.
            Which is why I guess millions of non-whites attempt to get into America illegally every year. I guess they want to be oppressed by Evil Whitey. ha, ha, ha

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    3. Avatar photo
      Stephanie

      If you avoid trying to base your assessment on simply murders, you can appreciate that racial profiling encompasses many lesser-than-murder forms of abuse. For instance, beatings and excessive traffic stops.

      For instance, even Sen. Tim Scott tells the story of how he’s been pulled over by police simply for being a black guy driving a nice car.

      I am not black and I have no idea if you are. But I could really not take seriously any statements by white people that there’s lying and exaggeration about police brutality towards black people, and which minimize the problem.

      I believe that what the victims say, as well as the experience of the black community who often don’t trust the police, is more reflective of the true picture.

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      1. Avatar photo
        Kevin Johnson

        Thanks. If you read carefully you’ll see I mentioned much that you do, although reaching a different conclusion. People of all colors and both sexes sometimes lie. The lie about many racist cops hunting down blacks impedes (in my view) progress on the real issues we both mention. I contend this widespread hysterical lie leads to more black deaths. Some prominent black intellectuals agree with me. Michael Brown wasn’t gunned down with his hands up but killed in self defense after he twice attacked a cop. The race of the liar didn’t change that. I appreciate your time and thoughtful input.

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  6. ClassicalLiberal

    I have long maintained that minorities probably wouldn't mind police who lie slightly on the "brutal" side of the spectrum....PROVIDED that the people who are getting roughed up by the police are the ones who are committing serious crimes. However, say that you see people in your neighborhood getting away with armed robbery, battery, maybe even murder. The cops seem impotent: you get robbed, you file a complaint, you get hauled in for questioning that's not real sympathetic ("so, this guy robbed you. Do you know him? Is he your dealer?"), and a week later you get a letter saying they can't do anything. But drive too fast, sell loose cigarettes, get pulled over with a firearm in your glove compartment that you are legally permitted to carry, or try to pass a fake $20 bill, well well well, that's a different story!

    What does that do to trust in law enforcement?

    I'm not endorsing police brutality, but rather that it's far worse that they are seen as brutal and incompetent.

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    1. Georges

      There is something to what you’ve written. Doing honest to goodness detective work, such as finding and interviewing witnesses, collecting & analyzing physical evidence, tracking down suspects, etc is HARD WORK. A lot of it leads to dead ends or evidence that’s too weak to support prosecution. As a result such efforts go unnoticed. Meanwhile the perception of aggressive enforcement for modest infractions is not entirely unfounded.
      There is definitely tension between zero tolerance enforcement such as in the mislabeled “broken windows theory” and the basic expectation that eg a bulge in one’s jacket should not have law enforcement reacting as if you were John Dillinger.
      There is also the very real danger that bulge in your jacket is what police officers fear it is.
      No easy answers here.

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  7. Trichwages

    “There is deep skepticism about how and when police exert their authority and force, but also deep desire for police to use their authority and force effectively to deter crime. Those who suggest that the tension between those things can ever be fully resolved are either naive or being facile. Voters who aren’t totally besotted by partisanship know this to be true.“

    Could not agree more. There are so many other issues where the last two sentences hold true, too. Even immigration.

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  8. Jaybrown

    "I would submit that everyone is a barbecue person, they just need to find the right smoke."

    And the right smoker!

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    1. Mary Stine

      Yeah, attitude adjustment helps also. Just because a person grew up on their families' version of BBQ sauce, doesn't mean other good stuff isn't out there.
      I even know vegans and vegetarians doing tasty BBQ. I know purists think BBQ is only meat or poultry, but I'm not a purist. I just like tasty food.

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      1. Jaybrown

        Well, to be fair, by "smoker" I meant cooking apparatus, but I take your point, the cuisine and the cook mean a lot. Almost any country or ethnic group has a smoked food tradition of some type. It's all good, if done well. BTW, I've smoked a lot of food, but I can't abide "barbeque sauce."

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    2. Avatar photo
      Porouke

      No kidding. When I lived in DC I bought a cheap electric box smoker. That thing made one of the worst briskets I have ever tried to eat. It was as much beef jerky as what you would have expected a decent brisket to be.

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      1. Jaybrown

        I think "cheap" is the operative word. I've used many smokers and different fuels over the years, and have settled on a (not cheap) Cookshack electric. Great Q every time and basically set it and forget it.

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  9. Bubba

    "Everyone" is convinced that election fraud is a major issue, but "no one" seems to recognize the significance of the primaries changing their rules every cycle to benefit a preferred candidate.

    You can pick any candidate you want, so long as it's one of these two.

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    1. Georges

      “I don’t care who does the electing so long as I do the nominating”
      — Boss Tweed according to google search

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