Thomas Jefferson Admissions Can Remain For Now

David and Sarah have much to discuss in today’s podcast. They walk through a troubling ...

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David and Sarah have much to discuss in today’s podcast. They walk through a troubling 4th Circuit decision on race-motivated changes to a Virginia school’s admissions policy, discuss a huge defamation verdict against Oberlin College, dive into the Disney wars in Florida, and finish with a quick (fake) legal battle over the titanic Duke/UNC clash at the Final Four.

Show Notes:

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  1. David Keating

    ICYMI TJ students are going for the emergency docket. Chief requests response by Wed. at 5 PM.
    https://www.supremecourt.gov/search.aspx?filename=/docket/docketfiles/html/public/21a590.html

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  2. Lylegruby

    Have to say, for numerous pods now you two have treated teachers strangely and ungenerously. On a previous episode, you downplayed concerns over the Florida bill because it differentiates between discussion and instruction. That’s pretty obviously impossible. Can anyone here point to a time when a teacher is discussing something with students that wouldn’t be considered instruction? Any discussion outside or go by for permission to go to the restroom could be considered instruction. That isn’t some saving grace of the FL bill.

    On this pod, you acted as if the personal lives of teachers are never brought up and that it would be inappropriate do so. That’s ridiculous. I’m not a teacher, but I have a family full of them. I know for a fact that kindergarten teachers bring up weekend activities all the time as part of classroom “instruction.” They ask their kids what they’re going to do and tell the kids what their plans are. It builds cohesion and introduces the students to the varying lives of their peers. It usually leads to a discussion that is incorporated into their recent learning plans. You two really need to be more realistic about teachers.

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  3. General Darden

    Interested in the French and Isgur reaction to Nolte's broadside against David. And hope the new AO includes something about the 5th Circuit vaccine decision today

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      David French vertical-nib Author

      Who’s Nolte? And what broadside?

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      1. General Darden

        https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/04/07/nolte-david-french-likens-grooming-kids-to-adults-appearing-in-playboy/

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        1. General Darden

          Appeared in a Google News feed on "David French"

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    Ian Fillmore

    Regarding TJ, it makes me uncomfortable when judges are required to peer into peoples hearts to determine their motivations. It’s bizarre that the same action can be either illegal or legal depending entirely on why the judge thinks you did it.

    I also think the comparison with cutting law is interesting. In voting law, states seem to bear the burden of showing that their laws aren’t racially discriminatory. With affirmative action, the burden seems to swing the other way, with many judges demanding extraordinarily damning evidence before they’ll overturn an affirmative action policy.

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    Ian Fillmore

    This is an honest question. David and Sarah (and many others) are concerned about the vagueness in Florida’s law about what constitutes “age appropriate.” But I would think that this is resolved pretty easily by Chevron. Courts will defer to whatever the state Dept of Ed decides is age appropriate in its state standards. Indeed the text of the law strongly implies that state standards are to be the reference point. If the state doesn’t promulgate standards that clarify “age appropriate,” then deference would apply to school districts. Am I missing something here?

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    Charles

    I’ve only listened to the intro so far, but your story about how, as of the previous morning, you didn’t have much to discuss made me wonder… so this is a Mailbag question for the next time you have that segment.

    Would you guys be willing to walk us through a typical work week? I know that might not seem like compelling content, but somehow you guys do your jobs even though it requires you to be immersed in the world of online news and Twitter. Those are realms that many of us see as Time Vampires… we say we’ll quickly check social media and then suddenly an hour of mindless scrolling has gone by.

    You both are creative and productive in that space, so I’m curious what routines or schedules you’ve developed to help with that.

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    T.K. Small

    Another good podcast… But I'm interested in the behind the scenes, nuts and bolts practical legal considerations of how the Gibson bakery could afford to pursue their case against Oberlin. Do either of you know whether they had any outside assistance?

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    Whitman H. Brisky

    This is off topic, but I think Thompson v. Clark, making it easier to show that criminal proceedings were favorably terminated would be a good future topic. Having litigated, or considered litigating, a few of these, the old standard was a difficult hurdle. But considering this further, there might be some blow-back from this case in that police and prosecutors may be less willing to dismiss these cases outright because that would open them up to false arrest suits. So defendants might have to go to trial more often, and might not always be acquitted. So it might be more expensive, and riskier, to engage in dissent and protest, thus resulting in a chilling effect.

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    Ben Connelly

    You are correct that “almost every university” in America is located in a state. Georgetown University (alma mater of my little sister), for instance, is located in the District of Columbia, which as everyone knows is not a state.

    As far as the question of teachers talking about their private lives goes: I think I was maybe 8 before I really understood that my teachers didn’t actually live in the classroom at the school.

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  10. UpNorth

    This may be a quibble, but I wanted to point out that the presentation of the "historically underrepresented middle school" issue is somewhat mischaracterized.
    (1) The issue was never about Asian-majority middle schools. As far as I can find in the districts' data and arguments, Asian-majority middle schools do not exist in the 5 districts.
    (2) The issue was that specific middle schools had turned into feeder schools for TJ under the old admissions process. Many middle schools were effectively shut out because the "competition" was an end-run exam barrage that eclipsed class rank, the unequal access to in-school curricular preparation and courses, and the limiting circumstances for high-poverty schools (which are determined by where a child's parent can afford to live). Previous profiles of incoming classes show that the school essentially had no poor kids (the proportion of kids who receive Free and Reduced Meals, or FARMs, was under 1%).
    (3) What concerns me about lines of argument I have seen lodged against the school's race-blind policy is that it seems to make any diversification along socioeconomic status suspect, because race and socioeconomic status are highly correlated. I struggle to imagine how any effort to break up elite opportunity hoarding could not be cast as a legitimate valid disparate impact claim, just based on how society is objectively stratified.

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