The Dispatch and The Bulwark Walk Into a Bar…

"I think the Republicans brought this on themselves and they do this so often."

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Jamie is joined by Tim Miller, host of The Bulwark Podcast, for a debate on the impact of social justice principles in the American education system.

The Agenda:
—Younger people’s support of Palestine
—Woke curriculums in elementary and middle schools
—Debate on sexual education
—Why Miller thinks Donald Trump’s second term would be worse than the first
—The difference between The Bulwark and The Dispatch

Show Notes:
—Steve Hayes on The Bulwark Podcast
—Jamie Weinstein on The Bulwark Podcast
—The Bulwark Podcast featuring Ross Douthat

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Comments (349)
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  1. Sai Ayila

    Tim miller is intelligent guy, what I call old fashioned conservatives. If you listen to their podcasts they are not exactly pro Biden but actually anti trump, and they criticize rightfully Republicans who claim they are "moderates" but pathetically suck up to trump and endorse him like that weasel Chris Sununu. I used to respect this guy, but by endorsing trump I lost all the respect for him. I wish the dispatch would call out politicians like Sununu like bulwark does. It's far from supporting Biden but rather call out those so called "law and order" "moderates" who are supporting an insurrectionist. You may well remove the "moderate" label from guys like Sununu. Thankfully Nikki Haley stayed away from endorsing trump for now, she kept quiet no appearances on TV or radio and she simply asked trump to earn her voters support. That's how you need to answer the question. My respect grew for her and hopefully she stays that way.

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  2. Spokencoffee

    I think it's poor form to be always be referring to the college campus protests as pro Hamas rather than than pro Palistinean. Sure there are some very ill-informed students on the left that don't know the difference, but that is not the view of the overwhelming majority of those opposed to the war. And it doesn't make them antisemitic to have strong opposition to the nation state of Israel. We need nuanced conversations and I feel the Dispatch can do better.

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  3. Stephen.Fenwick

    Jamie, keep bringing alternative guests, we don’t hear enough of varying or competing viewpoints even in responsible media these days - good on you mate AND good to hear some nuance to the Israeli Hamas was with the person from Bulwark

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  4. Matt.Wavro

    Reading through some of the comments I feel like I need to jump in and say that I appreciate what Jaime is trying to do by having on challenging guests. I appreciated it when he did it on The Jamie Weinstein Show, but I feel like the there was more of a description ahead of challenging guests and summaries from Jaime's perspective at the beginning and end of Jaime's position, the guests position, and the gap between.

    I would encourage you to bring back the descriptions and summaries. They are important signposts for listeners expecting to hear the roundtable discussions or other interviews.

    I enjoyed the conversations with the tough guests, but I was taking the guests statements for what they were worth instead of expecting a debate or etc. These are really tough topics, and I feel the Raison D'etra of these conversations are Res ipsa loquitur. (I'm struggling for a third non-english phrase) The average listener however needs a heads up, I was hoping for one and I've been a JWS follower and a Dispatch subscriber from the beginning.

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    Davis

    I’m sorry everybody. I don’t like it either. But if you think Trump is exceptionally bad, then the only logical step to take is voting for Biden. Because either Biden or Trump is going to be the next President. You can’t say Trump is exceptionally bad, but I generally don’t like Democrats, therefore I abstain. That’s a childish copout. Be an adult and choose a side.

    I expect to get all sorts of “I don’t like either of them, therefore they’re equally bad, so don’t make me choose” bullshit pushback.

    You know they’re not equally bad.

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      The Stray Goose

      You can’t say Trump is exceptionally bad, but then nominate Biden/Harris. - And there it is in a nutshell. Don’t blame us when Trump wins in November. You were a part of it.

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        Davis

        Also, which Democrat would you vote for over Trump, if Biden is somehow too radical for you?

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        Davis

        So your'e saying Biden/Harris is as bad as Trump/whoever? What are you saying, exactly?

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        1. Deleted Comment

          This comment has been deleted

  6. Aecrowder

    I read a lot of these comments before listening to the podcast, and based off of the comments I was expecting to really dislike Tim Miller (as I have disliked most of the recent guests Jamie has interviewed). I was really surprised to find that I actually enjoyed this conversation and liked Tim. I thought he was well-spoken and thoughtful, and I felt like he approached the conversation in a way where he was taking the questions seriously but wasn't antagonistic.

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      TheMatMan

      I agree. Almost didn't listen given the comments. He had some annoying argumentation tactics, but he didn't strike me as unfair or particularly condescending. I listen at 1.25x, so tone can get lost.

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    Katenesvick

    Man, Jamie, I'm rooting for you. Heaven knows I need more Dispatch pod content.
    But your guest selction is making it tough. I made it like 2 minutes into Tim's takes on Israel and remembered this is why I'm a Dispatch person and 100% not a Bulwark person (maybe 95% until The Dispatch poaches Sonny). I know some people think that's the narcissism of small differences but I disagree.

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    Kbwilliams54

    I thought this was a great podcast. I don't understand the reaction to Tim. I thought Tim did a great job explaining his priors, and why he thinks it’s weaselly to write in Jack Kemp instead of voting for Biden.

    I subscribe to both sites, fyi.

    I think Jamie downplayed potential outcomes from a second Trump term but I am happy he is going to vote for Biden.

    Also, I am a former swing voter who voted for people from both parties. Now, for me, it’s straight D until the GOP regains its sanity or a new center right party grows from the ash heap that is the GOP.

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    1. SkyDoc

      I'm not familiar with him prior to this podcast. But he didn't impress me. He comes across as emotional and reactive and scrambling for an articulate reasoning behind certain positions when asked to go beyond boilerplate statements. I didn't detect very solid dispassionate reasoning that he was able to articulate.

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      Wj

      Lots of people just seem to want a comfortable bubble.

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  9. Santanu.Roy

    MSNBC, Slate and the Bulkwark seem to be soul brothers in arms. JVL is the worst. I don't have a problem with them being supporters of Biden but just be honest about it that Bill Krystol has moved his politics to the left. Charlie used to have some critique of the likes of AOC but that has now all gone

    Please , don't let the Dispatch ever become the Bulwark. It just becomes propaganda at some point. Tim is just pathetic these days and downright nasty person.

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      Davis

      The Bulwark is the same as MSNBC and Slate? Yeeeeaaaaah….that’s rational. You’re being hyperbolic, right?

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      Davis

      Announcing that “JVL is the worst” only displays your own…I don’t know…ignorance, or delusion, or mendaciousness. JVL is honest to a fault. He lost his job of 20 years and went into the wilderness because he refused to polish Trump. We should all be so principled. JVL didn’t leave Republicans. Republicans left JVL.

      I know, your response is “but all he does is talk shit about Republicans”. Yes, and? Tell me how JVL is wrong. I’m guessing you have the same feeling about Nick Cataggio.

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  10. Frankfurman

    I actually enjoyed the podcast because it was challenging and there was real disagreement. Agree with other commenters who feel that Tim, being a political operative, falls into the "gotta support someone" negative partisanship mode, and thus, needs to not only pick a side but even polish one up (in this case Biden). That's fine, just not my cup of tea, I'm happy to dislike both candidates on their own terms.

    My bigger complaint with Tim's argument is that he essentially said that college-aged kids have watched the events of the past 20 years and seen America not being a force for good, specifically naming Guantanamo and Abu Gharib. That's incredible projection, I mean, come on, I'm 38, most of my peers have no idea about those events, the idea that a 20 year old has any real thought about that is crazy. It'd be like my getting angsty about Iran Contra. Their political memory at best begins with Covid.

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