Praying Through Wars, Real and Imaginary

David and Curtis talk to Tish Harrison Warren, an author, Anglican priest, and writer for ...

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David and Curtis talk to Tish Harrison Warren, an author, Anglican priest, and writer for The New York Times. Their conversation about prayer gets very real, as they first talk about prayer in wartime. Then they move back to the American cultural struggles, and discuss the disturbing tendency to compare peace to war and the toxic effect on our lives and hearts.

Show Notes:

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  1. Avatar photo
    Brenda Satrum

    It truly was a pleasure to listen to good conversation about really real concerns. Thank you, folks.

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  2. Jake Imber

    I'm late to the comments party, but it seems to me that the Lord's Prayer provides guidance on praying about stuff like this. First, we pray that God's will be done. I think we can be confident that death and destruction by Putin's army in Ukraine is not God's will. Thus, it seems perfectly sound to pray for Putin's plans to be thwarted. Second, we pray to be delivered from evil. That's a prayer for the Ukrainians, Russian protesters, President Biden -- and all of the rest of us. And, as instruments of God's will, we pray that we will properly discern and effectively carry out the tasks he's given us, and that Zelensky and Biden and Russian soldiers will do the same. Which, of course, means we pray also for courage and stamina for them and us.

    But, the model of prayer given by Jesus doesn't include giving God tons of specifics on the means and methods to accomplish his will or protect us from evil. Certainly there's a human need to let God know what we desire, and that's right and good. (See, e.g., the prayer from the Ukrainian woman that Tish quotes in her March 13 letter: "Father-God, may the attackers’ fingers freeze; may they drop things; may they not see clearly; may their equipment malfunction..." That's a prayer she NEEDS to pray.) But, usually -- for our benefit, not for God's -- our prayers should include, "Not my will, but thine, be done."

    Thanks for your tremendous work on the podcast. Even when I don't always agree with everything, I always come away with good stuff to think about.

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    Alan

    In a future podcast, I would love to hear David and Curtis discuss Putin and the Russian Orthodox Church.

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    Jessica Boniface

    Hi, Friends,
    I shared this podcast with my Facebook friends. A person responded back, asking about transcripts. I told her I would ask. So...is there a place to view a transcript of the show? Thanks in advance for your time!

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    Mark B

    I’ve been praying psalm 34:15-22 a lot today.
    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+34%3A15-22&version=NRSV

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  6. Rob Baxter

    What a fascinating topic. Will be shaking it up at our care group this week. Question, love the closing music - who is the musician and song name?

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      Curtis Chang

      Hey Rob - that is Producer Kris (Carter) playing his bluesy version of Amazing Grace!

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    Caleb T

    I SO enjoyed this conversation especially how Tish and David were able to disagree on some things without any real discomfort or defensive qualification. What a model for how to do it with grace! Bravo!

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  8. Tom Boyle

    This was excellent - thank you. Especially the closing comments about perseverance - when 'about prayer that is crucial. I am an intercessor by calling, and the best definition I ever heard was from an Urbana speaker in 2009 who was quoting Walter Wink from many years ago. "Intercessors have an essential role to play in creating a better future for our world. Because intercession is spiritual defiance of what 'is' in the name of what God has promised. The shape of the future will be determined by those who can survey all its various possibilities and who, by faith, latch onto one as inevitable. History belongs to the intercessors who thus believe the future into being." It is all about perseverance.

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    Will Roberts

    I think we should pity bin laden rather than rejoice in his death. Jesus says to love your enemies. The rain falls on the righteous. He is kind to the just and unjust. Perhaps killing bin laden was necessary. I think raids and drone strikes are far more just than shock and awe invasions. Still I think the least we can do as Christians is not dance on our enemies graves. I think in the sadder they drop of wine in a cup to remember the blood of the first born that was shed in the exodus. A solum recognition of the costs of war is a better Christian response than rejoicing over a war criminals death

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    Will Roberts

    In regards to Tish's comments about masking and how pastors get through these polarized debates I will give be my perspective. The dynamics were exactly as you all described during the omicron wave. I had people on both sides threaten my not to come or withhold their giving. I was in the vaccinated and done not forcing to wear masks crowd. Which didn't satisfy the anti vax people and the pro mandate people.

    It was a stressful time. A damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. I have just come to accept that life is suffering and I don't love my sheep because they are nice but Jesus commanded me to feed them because I love Jesus. The imagery of being a slave of Christ is helpful for me. If I have done the right thing it is no thanks to me. As Jesus says in luke we are to say we are worthless slaves we have only done what we ought to do. Once I have up my right to be treated well ministry became easier and loving my sheep became easier. Doesn't mean I didn't call out band behavior but I no longer resent it.

    In regards to public commentary I admire all of you in your public profession. I once wanted to be a public commentator as David was. Now I see that as not something to be wished for. Not that I wouldn't enjoy the platform but I could do without the grief.

    As to Tish's comment that she didn't ask for a public platform that she planned to pastor a small church, "did someone force you to work for three new york times or Christianity today?" If you had the choice to turn down these opportunities then you did on fact ask for it. Perhaps you didn't plan for it. You certainly don't deserve the cruelty. But you took the job and you take the paycheck so you did on fact put yourself in this position so did david and Curtis. as a all church pastor I can tell you there are many small churches looking for pastors so it was not like writing for the new york times was your only option.

    I am not much of a public figure. I get fat less grief than any of you. But I have gotten grief and it is hard at times. How have I felt with it?

    I remember Jesus command to feed his sheep not because they don't bite but because I want to love Jesus will h agape love.

    I remember that the pay and work hours are not bad for what I do and I try to be thankful. olin not in a physically dangerous job or one that involves a lot of complicated math. In the large perspective of things being a punk c figure who writes or speaks for a living isn't that bad

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      Will Roberts

      Being a public figure not a punk. Though perhaps after these comments people will think I am a punk

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      1. Brendan Bossard

        Not a punk, Will. Good posts.

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