Fire Hose of Outrage

Jonah ruminates on why we can’t have nice things, darling. A journey that takes us ...

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Jonah ruminates on why we can’t have nice things, darling. A journey that takes us from Julien Benda’s Treason of the Intellectuals to John Courtney Murray’s The Return to Tribalism. From the cigar shop to the primitive Greek usage of the word “idiot.”


Show Notes:

–Jonah’s piece Cigars: A Love Story or Two

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  1. Avatar photo
    Jim

    Idiots!

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    Shereedf

    I just finished listening to your Fire Hose of Outrage. I was going to comment, but I’m late to the party and several people have expressed my opinions in a much better way than I would. So, just, “Thank you and keep it up”.

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    BrettH

    Keep fighting the good fight, Jonah. I do believe, ceteris paribus, that social media is a net negative for society. I’m glad I have the wonderful staff at The Dispatch to sift through it for me! Jonah’s correct, if you travel the country enough you’ll find that most Americans are decent, helpful, people and care not for the clown show that is D.C.

    I’ve lived in midtown Manhattan, Vermont, Virginia, Oahu, Maui, the north, the south (GO HOKIES), and currently live in the Pacific Northwest. I’ve found more decent Americans than not in my 20 years since leaving New Jersey. Our diversity and aspiration to higher ideals is what makes this country great; not tribalism, be it political or otherwise.

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  4. Richard Fulmer

    Dr. King’s argument that we haven’t lived up to our ideals as documented in the Declaration and the Bible is much more persuasive than, “You’re evil because you’re white.”

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    BWG

    BLUF: The use of emotion to argue a position has always been part of the debater's/orator's toolkit, but has increased considerably since the '60s, and more common the more extreme the position. The last few years a pale version has been showing up in casual conversation: "I feel..." is replacing "I think..." as a statement qualifier. But you have to balance emotion and intellect or society breaks down, either at the local level (for lack of emotion) or at higher levels (for lack of reason/intellect).

    Gory details: The emphasis on emotion has grown considerably since the 1960's. Sometime in that decade making decisions based almost solely on emotion became legitimate among a large segment of the boomers. A common approach is to decide your view on some issue based on your feelings, and then cherry pick the data to support that view. That approach then began showing up in our elected officials and judges as boomers began taking those positions. Making a statement or assertion with great emotion, regardless of the facts, became common because people realized they could 1) attract lots of support, 2) get their way. When practiced cynically (as so often these days) it's a form of bullying (think Kavanaugh hearings on one side and many examples from Trump on the other). It's more embraced the more extreme the position, on either the left or the right. It's very hard to resolve an argument, or reach a compromise, when the opposing positions are based almost entirely on emotion - logic and reasoning are not persuasive to either party in that situation. Trying to persuade by impassioned appeal has always been part of the orators/debaters tool kit, but it's really gotten common and ratcheted up in intensity the past 30 yrs, to the point it's performative (an oft-used word the past few months).
    Also the past few years "I feel..." has begun to replace "I think..." in my kids (late teens/early 20's) vocabulary for qualifying a statement of fact that they are not 100% certain about, like "I feel that Queen Elizabeth believes cream cheese on a cucumber sandwich is sacrilege", when I would say "I think that Queen Elizabeth...."
    There has to be some non-rational emotion, or there would be no interest or enthusiasm for the local civic traditions and organizations that keep our society healthy. Why do some people like to go to cigar shops, and others like to climb glaciated peaks, and others are compelled to serve in their synagogue, church, mosque, or temple? Those preferences, and thousands upon thousands of others, come from an emotional, not rational, level. But at the level where decisions affect thousands upon thousands of people, rationality should be paramount.

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  6. Pudge

    You have better things to discuss than this guy.

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  7. Pudge

    You gotta stop doing the Trump stuff. I agree with you but it’s driving you batty.

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    Janet W

    Jonah, I am so with you on the feelings thing. It’s been a thing since I was an education major in the early 70’s. Feelings are fine, but they aren’t everything. Facts and truth often seem obscured by a revisionist history that meets someone’s narrative of how they want or need circumstances to be for political or personal reasons. Don’t leave twitter either as I would miss all the dog and cat updates. My dog passed away so I’ve been living vicariously through your tweets remembering my sweet Max.

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  9. GusABQ

    A couple of things. First, the reason I'm subscribing to the Dispatch is because I value what you stand for and that you hold to your principles whether I agree with all of them or not (although I usually do). The Seb Gorkas and other bashers of the world say just doesn't matter. While I understand the frustration, it's been clogging up the podcasts lately, and I'm way more concerned with the issues at hand and not a few individuals who find it enjoyable to insult others.

    Second, at least a part of the reason that Americans have such poor knowledge of history and civics is the horrible way it is taught. My kids loved history in sixth grade when it was taught to them in a personal and dynamic way by a fantastic teacher. Now that they have both graduated high school, they completely hate the subject. This is a true disservice, not just to the students or young adults themselves, but to the country as a whole.

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    CynthiaW

    Jonah, it's never the wrong time to start making healthier choices regarding one's consumption habits. Think of your Dear Readers and Listeners!

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