Heaven Can’t Wait

No legacy admissions in the Kingdom of God.

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Thanks to David French’s treachery, Jonah is forced to step into the world of evangelicalism on today’s episode, which features the Remnant debut of Russell Moore, a theologian, pastor, and writer at Christianity Today. Dr. Moore’s new book, Losing Our Religion: An Altar Call for Evangelical America, calls for an evangelical revival in the face of America’s contemporary challenges. Together, he and Jonah take a deep dive into what that revival should look like and what role religion should play in American life, while providing enough context to ensure heretical listeners won’t be lost at sea.

This episode is sponsored by our friends at FIRE. FIRE’s mission is to safeguard and uphold the right of all Americans to freedom of speech. Be a part of the front line of a growing movement by joining the FIRE Update.

Show Notes:

–Dr. Moore’s webpage

–Dr. Moore’s new book, Losing Our Religion

–C.S. Lewis’ The Weight of Glory

–Christine Emba: “Men are lost. Here’s a map out of the wilderness.”

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Comments (39)
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  1. Aaron Priest

    I lost a lot of respect for Dr. Moore when he jumped on the BLM/racism bandwagon. IMO, he's a mixed bag in his understanding of social and political issues.

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  2. Warrenjsmith

    Just got to this podcast (How does one keep up?). Very good conversation. As I listened to Dr Moore, as well as David French's previous Good Faith podcast, I keep thinking, (with citation to Goldberg/Levin), where are the guardrails? As much as I admire much about the faith of Moore/French et al, it appears every protestant sect has their own particular dogmas that can easily change. Who decides? Good job Jonah having him define what he means when he says "The Church". As a Catholic, I had a hard time understanding what they meant when they said "the Church".

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  3. Alex Weiss

    I can’t believe I missed this episode when it first came out. Great conversation!!

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    1. Alex Weiss

      Seriously, you two have had a humongous impact on me in a post 2020 world, really post 2015/6, but I wasn't politically engaged at all back then.

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  4. Carrilamys

    The SBC is not the only group of evangelicals, many Evangelical associations are surviving just fine with no crisis. To make it sound like everyone is in the same basket is a disservice to all.

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  5. Daniel Poeana

    I just listened to this pod, Jonah. Thank you for hosting this conversation! During 2020, I decided to stop attending church because it was so intertwined with our politics that it did feel like a means to an end, and if you called anything out, especially President Trump, you were essentially told to mind yourself.

    I know that there is no perfect church, but it’s different when it comes down to being Christians and utilizing the Gospel as a bludgeon. God is absolutely real to me, and I didn’t lose faith in Him, but I did lose trust in organized churches in the US.

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    1. Russell J

      I would suggest searching for other churches. Many are very careful to keep distance from politics. That includes all political sides though.

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    Dave IL

    Wonderful conversation. I was jarred, though, by the suggestion that "evangelical" should be dropped for some less triggering term. It seems like only last week that I was arguing that believers should stick with the label "fundamentalist". It was a meaningful term which was hijacked by the media in the late '70s because they were sure that conservative Christians wanted to set up a theocracy in the US just as the ayatollahs had in Iran. Those who believed in the five fundamentals, beliefs which evangelicals still hold today, should have taken the opportunity to explain what the word fundamentalist actually meant. I've read that the closest translation in Arabic refers to scholars who study the historical development of Sharia law. Referring to an Islamist as an "Islamic fundamentalist" is absurd.
    Although I'm not a believer, there are some institutions in the SBC which still inspire me. Dr Moore and Baylor University come to mind.

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    1. Russell J

      Only speaking from my experience but church attendees don’t really identify as “evangelical” and it has tended to be a sort of grouping for outside folks and recently been more of a political label. There are important divisions within the evangelical group although Moore’s short description seems fair to me. Fundamentalist has a different and more negative association.

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    Rboard

    I really enjoyed this conversation. But I don't know, Jonah -- hanging out with David French, Chris Stirewalt, David Bahnsen, and now Russell Moore -- if you're not careful, you may end up a believer yourself. What a scandal that would be!

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    Ted Gale

    A terrific conversation. It's not that I was not aware of Moore, and his resistance to the more toxic currents flowing through American Evangelicanism. But it was good to hear him talk at length. Non-Evangelical Christians and non-Christians alike will do well to remember that Evangelical Christianity has long been and will long be a significant component in American culture. It's good to know that there is someone in there who is busy nurturing the non-crazy elements.

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    WorkDog

    I like this podcast. Moore's comments regarding young college educated Christian evangelicals rings true in my experience as an one of them, albeit an elder one. The young college educated Christians that I interact aren't partisans by any stretch, are very anti-Trump, pro vaccine, pro science, etc. Some of the less non-educated seem to be washed in right wing nonsense, saying things like we used to make more money during the great depression than we do now.

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  10. Mark

    Interesting discussion. I've long been an admirer of Russell Moore, but not so much in recent years. In fact, I was surprised that he would be a guest on Jonah's podcast as he seems to be avoiding conservative circles altogether.

    I think Russell paints with an extremely broad brush. There are still many of us Christians who keep our faith in Christ #1, with politics falling way behind it. We still believe in free markets, smaller government, and fiscal responsibility with our Christian values, and we loathe Donald Trump's impact on the party.

    One thing I would challenge Russell on, as he runs primarily in left/progressive circles these days, is why he only "punches right" on leveraging the pulpit for political means (he mentioned Robert Jeffress in this interview), but never punches left to associates of his who do the exact thing. Earlier this year, he posted a picture of himself, praising a pastor from Chicago who has had Lori Lightfoot and Chicago's current mayor speak from his pulpit on Sunday morning. My guess is that it would be crickets from Russell on that one.

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