Jonah and Draper’s Political Caper

Jonah and a brand new guest, Robert Draper of the New York Times, engage in ...

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Jonah and a brand new guest, Robert Draper of the New York Times, engage in punditry ranker than even the most devoted Remnant listener could imagine before gushing over Draper’s adorable canine companion. If that sounds like a retread of the week’s previous episode with A.B. Stoddard, fear not! Today’s dog talk is entirely spontaneous. The pair have Biden’s joint congressional address to dissect, and Draper has a fascinating new piece on Republican turmoil that stimulates plenty of conversation on internecine party warfare. Will partisanship destroy us all? Can the GOP be saved from insanity? And why do Jonah and Robert both recall Watergate with fondness?

Show Notes:

– Robert’s page at the New York Times

– Robert’s latest piece, “Liz Cheney vs. MAGA”

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  1. Jason Runyan

    Jonah, your mom seems like an incredibly fascinating woman, and I hope you can get her on The Remnant to interview her. I just read about her books, not usually my type of read, but I am buying them from Amazon today. I'd be curious to know if they are based on anything real, as she seems to be someone "in the know"?

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  2. Jason Runyan

    That was a great interview. And I like Kirsten Powers, she was o e of the few democrats that didn't drive me crazy on Fox. I liked when she went on Bill O'Reilly's show, even though he was sometimes a douche to her, but she handled him pretty well. And I agree that race played a role in President Obama's election, as in nobody knew anything about him, his policies, his voting record, legislation he had supported, but always referred to "how historic" it would be. So yes, race played a significant role in his election. Likely not what Mr Draper was referring to however.

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  3. TallCon

    I certainly won't call this "eating my veggies" but it is definitely the case that I need to listen people I don't agree with more that eighty percent of the time.

    The only thing in this conversation that I couldn't get on board with in even an "agree to disagree" mentality was when he called John Kerry a war hero. But Jonah is a gracious host and didn't reply with "human toothache".

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    Jason Gibson

    It was a great interview. I actually would like to see you interview more people and mix it up a bit with historical dives. I’m a pretty religious listener and I love the rank punditry. But I would suggest that after a week of Such punditry that you have two ways that you can go:

    1. more drinking. (1 vote from me)

    2. Or a deep dive on a historical issue

    I noticed this during the podcast when you guys were talking about Watergate I wanted to kind of stay there and I think it would be really cool to have more guests who may be a written a book about a period in history or just have reflections on a period of history or an issue and just kind of stay in that area

    My greatest dream is to have some writer whose critical of Woodrow Wilson and have you interview him and even if you mention Wilson’s name 150 times that we will have to hear the Uruk hai theme 150 times

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    Roderic Fabian

    A few minutes in Jonah's guest characterized the protest on Jan. 6th as an "insurrection". Jonah didn't push back on this and so it left me wondering if he agrees with that characterization.

    Later on the guest gave Trump no credit for Operation Warp Speed. I remember that critics, possibly including Jonah, showered scorn and contempt on Trump in or about April 2020 for saying that the vaccine would be available by December. Then it actually happened. But now his guest is saying, "Any president would have done this."

    Really? You envision Biden doing that? Wanting to do it, maybe, but actually doing it?

    When his guest engaged in psychoanalysis of Trump supporters, well, really. Any Soviet Psychiatrist could have done better.

    It is the hallmark of the Washington insiders to heap criticism and contempt on ordinary Americans. "Trump supporter" is shorthand for all that. To all the other terms of opprobrium heaped upon them we can now add "cowardly" and "mentally diseased".

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    1. Photo of Jonah Goldbergcircle-angle-nib
      Jonah Goldberg vertical-nib Author

      I think you get a bit over your skis here I think but you have a legitimate point at the outset. I really have no first order problem with the term insurrection. The people chanting hang Mike Pence were insurrectionists as far as I’m concerned. Or at least I don’t see any need to defend them from the charge. The people who didn’t storm the Capitol at all were not. But Trump did encourage a riot and some of the actual rioters were insurrectionist. Also, insurrection is the term a lot of folks use now and I don’t think it’s worth wasting everyone’s time getting into a lexicological spat over it. As for Robert’s Warp Speed claim, I think you’re probably right that I should have pushed back. I thought about it in the moment because I wasn’t sure then — or now — that I agreed with it. But there are all sorts of things I don’t circle back to for reasons that have far less to do with ideological agreeement and far more to just letting the conversation flow.

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        Jason Gibson

        Good respomse

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          Jason Gibson

          Also a good response!

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    Michael Garrett

    Maybe there should be an interactive option where we can upload what we have in mind when we hear "the gold jacket." Lamé or sequins had not crossed my mind. I was picturing a 1970's satin disco baseball jacket, although more serious adults might tend towards a 1970's Wide World of Sports team blazer.

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    David Chen

    Dear god I never thought I'd say these words but... we need a Cheney.

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  8. Very Old Grumpy Guy

    This was an excellent podcast. The most interesting thing I learned was about Liz Cheney. I have not spent much time learning about her, because I assumed the Trumpies will push her out. I am now rooting for her and think she might have a chance. Would be a nice change to have someone with scruples in government.

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    Alexander Spalding

    Hello Jonah,

    Only related to this episode insofar as I thought of it while listening. You should have Michael Wear on as a guest. I met him at a small conference a few years ago and he talked about his take on partisanship. I found his view intriguing. He's a Democrat, but actually thought independents were more to blame for increased division than either party.

    The simple version of his point is that the rational/normal people keep leaving their parties so all that's left is the crazy. He felt if more casual Republicans stayed in registered with the party it would remain more rational. Instead the are becoming Independents where they really have no structural power. As such, the middle-minded people have have effectively subjugated the party, thusly the government, to control by the crazies.

    I have always found this an interesting argument. Not because I think it explains all things, but because it is actionable by the individual. Much of the discussions I hear around this topic are interesting, but rarely have much that I - as normal, busy person - can do. I can be in a party! It seems to be a truly scalable solution.

    All that being said, I have always felt there is one big flaw. I don't really know what it means to be in a party today. I can register, and I can vote. Beyond that I guess I can join a committee? That sounds terrible. I think conversations on how people can actually and practically play a role toward the re-normalization of their party would be very interesting and helpful.

    One last note - I lived in Oxford, UK for a little while and my church met in the Conservative Club (not because it was a political church, just cheap rent). This club interested me. It was basically just a semi-private bar where members of the conservative club could hang out. It seems to me this is a great way to engage the general populous in a party. It is easy and unassuming way to get people together in simple community and begin to share ideas. Admittedly, I struggle to see myself setting foot in a Republican Club bar...

    Anyway - great interview, enjoyed it a lot. Check out Michael Wear, I think he would provide good content.


    Thanks,



    Alexander

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