Political Palates

What does Jonah think of Vanderpump Rules?

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Jonah opens up this week’s Ruminant with an indulgent diatribe against Top Chef and Wisconsin cheese. He then pivots toward even more divisive topics, such as Trump’s abortion statement and the messiah-like energy around Barack Obama. Then our culinary-political connoisseur goes on an epicurean journey of topics: hostile work environments, the problems with binary choices, and the definition of a liberal.

Show Notes:
—Jonah’s Wednesday G-File
—Friday’s Dispatch Podcast roundtable
—Top Chef Wisconsin Cheese Festival recap
—American Masters: “The Incomparable Mr. Buckley”

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Comments (54)
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  1. Andrew Gessel

    RE: Legalizing Murder pre-Civil War

    It is absolutely the case that states could (and did) legalize murder before the Civil War amendments. I know this off the top of my head because Missouri Executive Order 44 (aka the Mormon Extermination Order) was signed in 1838 and ordered the general of the Missouri Militia to exterminate or drive out Mormons from the state. Fun fact: it technically wasn't rescinded until 1976.

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    1. James Hohman

      Jonah also asked whether the penalties for murder could have differed among the states, suggesting that some may have levied fines for the crime. I'd like to elaborate on this with a point from Jacques Barzun:
      "At the start of the admirable common law, in the 11th century, /wergeld/ was the rule; that is, paying for murder done; /murther/ originally denotes a fine."

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    Earl King

    As I listened today as I took the spaniels for a walk...I stated laughing. I too watch Top Chief...Although I feel asleep and missed the Cheese Festival. What got me was your caricature of the privileged Hollywood wanna be’s.
    Growing up in SoCal in the 1970’s and 80’s it would be hard not run in to people who were tangentially in the movie business or desirous of being in the movie business I watch Vanderpump and my wife wonders why.
    I tell her I grew up with these people. Vacuous doesn’t even begin to describe the shallowness of these people. Frankly I took advantage of some of them. Easy lay. Anyway I watch and am grateful I didn’t end up like them. It was a miracle of course.

    As for the rest of the pod....I am largely of the opinion it is only the elites in journalism, both broadcast and print, politicians and academia who are responsible for the divide we all feel. Yes, Americans are uniquely American. Yes, we might have more in common than not. Yet the forces that need, eyeballs or viewers or small dollar donations put on a NASCAR show.....telling us the massive car crash is going to happen just watch.

    No matter how truthful any in the communication business is, it thrives on conflict. It’s an observation not a knock. Every book you’ve ever read is about conflict. Humans are warriors, we thrive on conflict. It’s fucked up but it’s true. If we thrived on love, Jesus would have conquered the world long ago.

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  3. Jeff Wenger

    I enjoyed the episode very much.

    I share your skepticism of crowds whether they be sporting events, concerts, or throngs shopping. To my mind, if people start bunching up, they’re on their way to a Nuremberg rally.

    Additionally, I was intrigued by your comments on the Pledge of Allegiance which, to my ear, commonly drops into an autopilot cadence somewhere between the Lord’s Prayer and the Green Lantern oath. I hope that you’ll consider a future examination of the Pledge’s history. It would likely be fascinating and revelatory to many listeners.

    Thanks!

    Jeff Wenger

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  4. Callie1121

    This is a lame comment, but why doesn't the Ruminant Remnant appear on YouTube music podcasts? I don't use Apple or Spotify, but am trying to find all my podcasts in one place and I enjoy the weekly Ruminant.

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    1. Andrew Gessel

      Because the Youtube Music app sucks. I am so mad that Google killed Google Podcasts that I actually pulled out my old iPod and am using that.

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  5. John D.

    Monroe, Wisconsin has been holding a Cheese Days festival every other September since 1914.

    https://www.cheesedays.com/

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    1. Pohl

      Yeah, I have a tee from Monroe, WI, that says “A quaint little drinking town with a cheese problem.”

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      1. John D.

        Where Huber beer was brewed. A staple of my college experience with beer in the mid 80’s since it was $5 a case and the bottles were returnable.

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        1. Pohl

          I don’t think I ever tried that one. Was it in squat brown bottles like Blatz? I assume it tasted like Blatz, a notch or two below PBR or Stroh’s. (smile)

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      Anne W (Raw5254)

      I was just going to post this. It’s the 3rd weekend in September on even years, so it’s happening this September.

      My husband and I have volunteered to help make The Optimist Club fried cheese curds, and they’re unbelievably popular! We mostly did the Green County Fair, but also one Cheese Day. The line was really long. Great money maker for the club!!

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    Calvin.Siler

    "Nothing strikes me more when I read the controversies of past ages than the fact that both sides were usually assuming without question a good deal which we should now absolutely deny. They thought that they were as completely opposed as two sides could be, but in fact they were all the time secretly united—united with each other and against earlier and later ages—by a great mass of common assumptions. We may be sure that the characteristic blindness of the twentieth century—the blindness about which posterity will ask, “But how could they have thought that?”—lies where we have never suspected it, and concerns something about which there is untroubled agreement between Hitler and President Roosevelt or between Mr. H. G. Wells and Karl Barth. None of us can fully escape this blindness, but we shall certainly increase it, and weaken our guard against it, if we read only modern books."
    –C.S. Lewis, “On the Reading of Old Books.“

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    Ben Connelly

    In many ways, we’re lucky Obama was a good man. He could have tried to be a dictator if he had wanted. I think a lot more people would have gone along with it than we think.

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    The Bell Tower

    I remember trying to explain to my wife, who is from China, why we have all these absurd slivers of Christianity with big arguments over small differences. She compared it to Kung Fu in China, which instantly reminded me of Jack Burton being swarmed by two factions in Chinatown who seemed identical except for the colors of their sashes.

    “You have the sacred Fist of Death! But we have the sacred Death by Fist! We must Kung Fu Fight!”

    Anyway, I love to repeat myself and I feel compelled to do so again: the American Founding Fathers were conservative radicals not radical conservatives. This is lost on many Americans. The French revered Franklin and the Americans not long before tearing themselves apart.

    Henry Adams recounting the scandal of Jefferson receiving that apologist Thomas Paine is delicious history that I probably need to go and reread. America grew organically in the wilderness from the radical ideas that came out of the enlightenment. There was no ancient regime to overthrow.

    Anyway, the best cooking can be found on YouTube. Vincenzo’s Plate and Pasta Grammar alone have taught me how to cook authentic Italian that even enabled me to drop 30 pounds while eating the best I ever have. Then head over to Meat Church or How to Barbecue Right and put those pounds right back on. No politics to be found.

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  9. Austin from Atlanta

    Something I struggle with is how little self-reflection there is in our politics, even despite everything the country has been through recently.

    The feedback Jonah got on the G-file almost perfectly encapsulates it.

    The Dispatch is a site birthed from conservatives lamenting the decline of the “right wing.” Criticism of “the right” can be found all over this site, and with good reason, because there’s so much to criticize.

    However, seemingly any time “the left” is criticized, the comments will be full of progressives wish-casting away all basis for criticism and calling you an idiot for not sharing their priors or fallacies.

    As a conservative, I have basically had to reexamine every philosophical experience I had in my life before 2016 to see what was legit and what was part of this populist virus. People like Jonah and David French have done that hard work in the public eye.

    And the thanks is criticism from people who have no interest in doing that work of self-reflection (either on the MAGA right or the “left.”)

    My point is not that conservatives are right about everything because no movement is. But I’ve become completely exhausted by people who have either not been trained in how to construct arguments weaponizing their boorishness or by people who fight tooth & nail against the simplest observations of flaws with “their side” (and who take recognition of a flaw with “their side” as a personal criticism.)

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      squarooticus

      The biggest problem with the Dispatch IMO (and to be clear, it is not the fault of Jonah or Steve or really any individual contributor, nor any kind of original sin) is the number of insufferable left-wingers in the comments section who demonstrate zero willingness¹ to understand the point of view of people who intensely dislike Trump and what he's done to the conservatives' electoral vehicle, but simply cannot be convinced to cast a vote validating the innumerable failures and willful executive overreach of Joe Biden over the past 3+ years, or to support an opposition party that stands against most of what fusionists stand for.

      ¹And perhaps ability; there's just no way to know.

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      1. Bobby D

        My biggest reservation about Trump is that he can’t distinguish his own political fortunes from what’s best for the country. That was the theme of the first impeachment.

        But Biden is basically doing the same thing on Israel and Iran. He wants Israel just to suck it up because retaliating would offend the America-hating socialist baristas whom he believes that he needs for reelection. Barring some exogenous event, I suspect that Trump will win easily in November.

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      2. Austin from Atlanta

        I really hope TD rolls out a block feature at some point. Probably 90% of the commenters are really thoughtful and interesting, but the other 10% make me want to stop participating all together.

        I honestly can’t tell where obtuseness ends and bad faith begins with some of the folks here.

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          CynthiaW

          I have a "block feature" in my brain.

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            TheMatMan

            Yes, anytime I've mentioned a block feature would be nice, you've replied similarly. I honestly don't understand your pushback on suggesting such a feature. Could you please explain it?

            1) We're using computers. We should automate the work.
            2) You're clearly MUCH better at reading user names every time before reading the post than I am. Can we agree that you're superior to many members in this regard, myself included, and acknowledge that some of us would benefit from simply letting the computer do the heavy lifting for us?

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    EmmyCab

    I hear a lot of conservatives describe themselves as "classical liberals," but I had not considered "left wing" NIMBY'ism in terms of "conservatism." This was an interesting pod, thanks!!

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