Tossed Salads and Scrambled Meigs

Time to go nuclear.

By

James Meigs, Manhattan Institute senior fellow and contributing editor at City Journal, makes his Remnant debut in today’s wildly wonky exploration of clean energy, tech policy, and environmentalism. He and Jonah kick things off by talking about the elephant(‘s foot) in the room––nuclear power––before seamlessly transitioning to the terrifying subject of artificial intelligence. Come for the well deserved nuclear boosterism; stay for the existential dread provoked by the idea of malevolent chatbots ruling the meatspace.

Show Notes:

-Watch: The Case for Nuclear Power with Jonah Goldberg & James Meigs

– James’s podcast, How Do We Fix It?

Keep reading with a free account
Create a free Dispatch account to keep reading Get Started ALREADY HAVE AN ACCOUNT? SIGN IN
By
Comments (17)
Join The Dispatch to participate in the comments.
 
  1. Avatar photo
    Porouke

    A few random thoughts:

    I am in environmental for a power company, and I always try to steer the conversation into the actual costs and benefits of different generation sources. When I talk to fellow biologists about the land use discrepancies between our solar and our nuclear assets, it is often a revealing moment for them. That is actually fertile ground for persuasion.

    I wonder if this advance in AI automation actually helps solve some of the permitting backlogs eventually? NEPA requires a hell of a lot of work, but if we can figure out how to automate a lot of the environmental review process that frees regulators up to process permit applications in a way that satisfies reasonable environmentalists, it could cause a major shift in productivity.

    Re: the Rousseauian tendencies against technology, I think people need to spend some time in unprotected nature to get perspective. If you’re a community organizer and only want to talk community gardens, actually commit to trying to feed yourself from a garden absent industrial agriculture. It’ll show you the cruel whims of nature. Go backpacking for a week. Spend some time hunting or fishing for your meals. Shelter yourself without an electrical grid and you’ll realize that even the most pleasant times of the year can lead to uncomfortable climates. It doesn’t take a lot, but many of the most emphatic romanticists don’t fully realize what they’re asking for when a week spent in the woods truly roughing it can crystallize the consequences very quickly. I enjoy a week roughing it in the woods…but the experience doesn’t make me want to spend a year roughing it in the woods…rather, it makes me a lot more grateful for how easy I have it at this point in human history.

    Collapse
  2. Franmurphy

    We absolutely need more discussion and action on nuclear energy. We allowed Hollywood to scare the cr*p out of us with us with hyped up doomsday movies in the past. I was one of those who bought into the "evils" of nuclear power. Time now for rational and accurate information. Hope this is not the only time we hear from James Meigs. Great interview.

    Collapse
  3. Payette

    Having worked by Hanford > 40 years ago (and being aware of the problems with nuclear waste disposal), I was opposed to nuclear energy until the last few years. I appreciate the information in this discussion.

    Collapse
  4. Avatar photo
    Anne W (Raw5254)

    My husband and I were listening to your Saturday podcast this morning, and you mentioned that you were disappointed that this one didn’t get more of a response. Me too, Jonah.

    I shared it with one of my brothers, who surprised me by digging in with his support for wind and solar. Maybe I shouldn’t have been surprised because he’s also the one who bought a Tesla despite the fact that once you leave the more densely populated urban areas of Wisconsin (which happens quickly), there are few, if any, charging stations.

    However, my husband was interested in listening, which meant I got to listen a second time. We’ve both been supporters of nuclear energy for awhile now, so it was interesting learning more about why it’s a good source of power now and in the future.

    Also, Popular Mechanics is a great magazine!

    Collapse
  5. John P

    I am inclined to think that, if ChatGPT can effectively do the writing of documents, that may be a sign that those documents are substantially less valuable than believed. That is, your insurance company will accept ChatGPT's explanation for why they should cover a procedure recommended by your doctor, that sounds like the company (or the regulations that require them to collect that justification) are wasting everyone's time.

    Maybe I'm just feeling cranky and worn-out, though.

    Collapse
  6. Avatar photo
    Travis M

    Instead of beaming solar power down from space, we just need to build space elevators with solar panels on them and then run power lines down. Seems like the best of both worlds.

    Plus space elevators, as the kids say, are hecking rad!

    Collapse
  7. Avatar photo
    Anne W (Raw5254)

    I’m in Wisconsin, and we have those wretched windmills densely dotting pockets of areas. Along with that there is an area to the south (right on the Wisconsin/Illinois border) that has an entire neighborhood of homes with solar panel roofs. That probably makes more sense than the windmills, but it’s the money the government hands out for so many things that gets to me. That includes compensating farmers for not planting crops.

    Collapse
  8. Avatar photo
    James.N.Tolbert

    Great conversation about nuclear. A bit of unsupported blah about wind and solar. Jonah: Lifecycle analysis of wind & solar are "not as good as people think". For the record, here is a solid estimate of the life cycle analysis of CO2 emissions from different forms of electric generation. https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy21osti/80580.pdf Wind and solar are right in line with nuclear - all are reasonable choices. Personally, I like multiple technologies competing against each other and advancing. We are not all that good at accurately predicting which technologies will have technical breakthroughs during expanded development and demployment.

    Collapse
    1. Randall Briggs

      But wind and solar cannot be relied upon, as discussed. The wind stops, the day turns to night, the weather is bad for long periods of time, etc.

      Collapse
      1. Avatar photo
        Jim NC

        Yes. If I am relying only on a wind farm in my county, this is a huge issue. If I have a balance of a nuclear plant, wind farms across several states, and solar power across an interconnected grid, possibly along with some storage, maybe even some hydropower or geothermal (both dispatchable) this can create a balanced grid. Randall, as I said, I like multiple technologies competing against each other - including nuclear. I simply want any one/any company burning fossil fuels to be responsible for their CO2 emissions - and currently there are zero coal or natural gas plants generating electricity with no greenhouse gas emissions. The comment you are replying to is specifically addressing a claim made by the Dispatch that lifecycle analysis of wind & solar are "not as good as people think". Lifecycle analysis is different than grid balancing, and I believe you are conceding the point that the claim about the lifecycle analysis of wind and solar is inaccurate in the piece.

        Collapse
  9. Avatar photo
    M.E.

    Ooh, a brief, brief mention of The Diamond Age, among my favorite books. You said last month you were going to read it -- I'd love to hear your thoughts (perhaps mixed into another foray into sci-fi geekery more generally).

    Collapse
  10. Avatar photo
    Kurt S

    Hear him! Hear him! Thanks for this stimulating conversation. A former Navy "nuke" myself I've long been a fan of nuclear power and often wish that my impoverished home state of West Virginia would -- for many of the reasons James gives but especially for its proximity to East Coast urban centers -- convert itself from the 2nd-largest coal producing state to the Nuclear Energy Capital of the country. A pipe-dream, I know.

    Collapse
Load More