Dune 2 and The Golden Path: Jonah and David Feeling the Hype

The modern Lawrence of Arabia?

By and
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David and Jonah take over The Skiff (at podcast empresario Adaam’s behest) for an extraordinarily dorky episode anticipating the release of Dune: Part Two, comparing the Golden Path of Dune to the psychohistory of Asimov’s Foundation, and discussing why Butlerian Jihad is such a brilliant world-building device.

The Agenda:
–Foundation vs. Dune
–Marvel movies vs. Dune
-The Game of Thrones comparison
-What is the Golden Path?
-Worms the likes of which God hasn’t seen
-Concerns about Dune: Part Two

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Comments (74)
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  1. J. Darby Ryder

    If you guys are looking for future topics read the Hyperion Cantos. Bradley Cooper is apparently developing it into a movie.

    Other classic sci fi in development include "Ringworld" and "Rendezvous with Rama".

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  2. Dreaded.Viking.Penguin

    Nothing wrong with liking the Foundation show, but you can't really address Dune's rebuttal of Foundation without reading the books. They're just so different from the show.

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    East Tn mom

    Jonah and David, please do a follow up episode now that you have presumably seen Dune 2. Eager to hear your follow up comments! My crew of 6 went twice this weekend and watched Dune 1 in between! And had much fun debating our viewpoints.

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    JohnF

    This was an entertaining episode!

    However ... Discussing the works of Frank Herbert and Isaac Asimov when you have only seen the Foundation TV series is like trying to discuss Islam and Christianity when you have only seen "The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion the Witch, and the Wardrobe" and you've never read the Bible.

    The Foundation TV series had the same title as the original trilogy, some characters had the same names as characters in the books, and some of the concepts in the books were loosely (very loosely) incorporated into the plot of the show. Apart from that, any similarities between the books and the show were completely unintentional.

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    Leslie

    What a treat to listen to you two nerds again! So fun.

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    Lou Coolidge

    This was great. I would love for sci-fi talk to become a more regular feature.

    Looking forward to the Dune 2 post-watch discussion (I saw it last night and really liked it).

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    Jrcook3000

    This was a great discussion. However, when talking about the possibilities for a TV series based on Dune, no one mentioned that there is supposedly a Bene-Gesserit focused series in development at HBO called Dune: Prophecy. As far as I have heard, that is still underway, although I haven't heard anything about a premiere date. Anyone know any more?

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    Mferrantino1862

    There are actually a lot of economists , particularly in international trade, that were inspired by reading the Foundation books as teenagers. I found out I was not the only one when participating long ago in a training workshop at Purdue for a mathematical tool called computable general equilibrium modeling (CGE), which seemed like a practical thing sort of like psychohistory.

    However, when we all grew up, many of us realized a few things. One is that Asimov's "psychohistory" is poorly conceived. As a biochemist, he imagines it as something like the gas laws in chemistry, and clearly never learned any economics, or imagined that prices were important.

    The second is that those of us who were attracted to this particular method of economic analysis (steel subsidies in Brazil affect the price of tea in China at a long remove! We have millions of equations!) find themselves deep into Victorian neoclassical economics, and tend to be advocates for free trade and against government-induced distortions. Also, most people in the CGE community are keenly aware of the pitfalls of confusing models with reality, and the best of them try to educate policymakers about this problem.

    In short, Foundation fandom among young economists does not necessarily produce an army of Paul Krugmans.

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    Pdfordiii

    Mr. Goldberg, when you mentioned The Uptown theatre I was taken back to the summer of 1977 when we drove from SE DC to see Episode IV, the line was down and up the next street, so we got tickets for the 11 pm show, went back home, then came back.
    A touch of homesick nostalgia I savored, even though for a moment.
    A "little bit of a hate crime?" I despise the Foundation TV series. Such a repulsive bastardization of the novel. Yes, I've read every Foundation novel, the first 3 at least 3 times.
    Your critique of psychohistory has indeed tempered my love of the Foundation story.

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      JonathanRRogers

      I wasn't alive in 1977, but I'm pretty sure the movie was just called "Star Wars" at the time. I read the Foundation novels as a kid. I watched a couple of the Apple episodes and lost interest. Perhaps that's a good show that should have been called something else, like the movie called "Starship Troopers." Asimov was great, but I'm more likely re-read Heinlein.

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  10. Paul Bigbee

    Terrifically fun discussion, thanks to you both. Almost as fun as Sarah's gift to David when she invited Professor Devereaux onto the flagship podcast ("Bret Devereaux Talks Orc Battle Tactics"). If you really want to burrow into Herbert's influences and thoughts, I enthusiastically recommend reading Tim O'Reilly's book, "Frank Herbert" (https://www.oreilly.com/tim/herbert/index.csp).

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