Say It Loud

"Elite media is an extension of campus culture."

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Jonah makes an unexpected return to the AEI studio for another in-person Remnant, this time featuring Keith Whittington, beloved egghead and Princeton political scientist. A deep dive ensues into America’s unique preoccupation with free speech and the nature of academic freedom, which raises a number of pertinent questions. How concerned should we be about the state of free speech on college campuses? What are some common misconceptions about academic freedom? And what should we make of Ron DeSantis’ approach to these issues? Those feeling free and expressive are particularly encouraged to tune in.

Show Notes:

– Keith’s page at Princeton

– Keith: “Hamline Takes Quashing Academic Freedom to a Whole New Level”

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  1. Avatar photo
    Clifford Luebben

    Jonah made a passing comment “Florida schools are actually pretty good”
    I’m related to several Florida public school teachers. They tell me Florida does not care about their public schools relative to other states (apparently Texas is actually the dream state to work for, so it’s not a red state/blue state thing)

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  2. Joe1776

    Some comments suggest that you both might believe anti-Christian tropes like the conflict thesis.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict_thesis

    Maybe you both have a more nuanced view on this as you didn’t go into it much. But it is a good example of the sort of slant universities peddle to people and ends up so embedded in our culture it is hard to remove. I think the cultural issues are the most important. I am not saying that this minority view should be shut out of universities but that these universities are still teaching these and other debunked theories has to do with politics morphing what people believe.

    There are many anti-Christian tropes that continue to be assumed in academia - albeit outside of history departments. This is part of the problem for conservatism. Here is a decent website that covers some of the myths that permeate our culture:
    https://historyforatheists.com/

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    Ben Connelly

    This was really good. Even if it did unearth perhaps the biggest disagreement I have with Jonah: openness to domes censorship vs. hardcore libertarian freedom of speech.

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  4. Payette

    Quite an interesting discussion.

    The idea of protest activities as a key part of the educational experience has migrated down from the universities to some K-12 districts (in Oregon), and it is too bad.

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  5. Wakernan

    "Who gives a rat's ass about New College?" The Trumpkins do, dumbass! And he needs them in order to rid the White House of the lefties. Geez Jonah grow up!

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  6. Krane

    The described thought experiment in which one state school has humanities and a law school and another emphasizes STEM is an approximation of the history of IU and Purdue.

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    Marianwcates

    I don't know why you expect to be hassled about this episode. I enjoyed it and found the discussion to be quite interesting and fair.

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  8. Richard Kennedy

    Once again, we are getting chronological math wrong! As a Boomer, I am loathe to defend my generation. The Free Speech Movement was spawned and put forward by a tweezer generation. The Port Huron Statement was 1962 and sourced by FSM folk. The earliest Boomers graduated from *high school* in 1964. 1964! We were New Left cannon fodder, not leaders.

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    1. Paulkempf

      Good point! Some New Left activists and influencers: Abbie Hoffman, b. 1936; Tom Hayden, b. 1939; Jerry Rubin, b. 1938; Paul Krassner, b. 1932.... What they were selling was Old Leftism repackaged. To illustrate, when I was introduced in the early 60s to the term "correct," it referred to expression that conformed to and supported accepted leftwing opinion. (Back then, the "politically" part of "politically correct" was unspoken.) Inherited from the CPUSA, where it literally had meant following the Party line, it served as an admonition that deviationism was not to be tolerated ("that's not a correct argument"). The FSM was never about free speech; it was about "correct speech."

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      1. Richard Kennedy

        Your birthdates are a little worse than I thought. The eldest could be my Dad. He was born in 1930. I was born in 1953. My draft number in 1971 was good enough for the previous year, but not in ‘71. We really were cannon fodder! Five years later, my student government “party” ticket proclaimed draft opposition as the big plank. Four years after the draft was dissolved. I left the “party” and lost my free ride.

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  9. Avatar photo
    OK Steele

    I couldn’t put my finger on my qualms with last night’s G-File because I agreed with every assertion Jonah made, however listening to this podcast the whole AP class argument cuts the other way for me.

    I couldn’t agree more that there are many more important things corrections in K-12 education, which in turn, at least IMO, means that there are many more important arguments to be had in regard to K-12 education.

    Why waste the time, effort, and political capital on arguments over things that are at the very least causing no harm. AP classes are for children who are excelling in comparison to their piers, I’m totally fine with those children choosing to take the course in question if it interests them and I don’t see how allowing them to do so negatively effects the ability to fix other academic issues in K-12 education.

    Jonah’s argument may be in response more to senseless media outrage of which I’ve mostly insulated myself from than in favor of the policy, in which case we would likely be in violent agreement.

    I just can’t help but feel like you can walk and chew bubble gum at the same time. Failing K-12 education is not an overly strong argument in favor of removing a very niche course offering for gifted high school students.

    I’d love to hear where I’m wrong if anyone notices flaw in my logic here.

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    1. Joe1776

      I think it was more if the class covering this material it won’t cover some other material. But overall I don’t think either cared much and it is the government that will decide what curriculum is in government schools.

      Neither went into depth about whether crt often specially and intentionally focuses on the blameworthy behavior of one race of people and thus would be racist violating equal protection. People of every race have people in their race that have done good and bad things. We don’t want whole classes just focusing on the worst part of one race and the best of the preferred race. If you disagree just imagine history being taught to intentionally highlight all the goods done by white people and all the harms done by every other race.

      Note this is different then just teaching history for what it is. In a country that has been historically white most of the blameworthy and praiseworthy actions will be from white people. But intentionally going out of your way to paint one race as superior is racist.

      Desantis is basically saying it is all racism and he doesn’t want it in his state.

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  10. Avatar photo
    The Bell Tower

    Once again, it’s incumbent upon me to point out that the people who are upset with Ron DeSantis’ appointments at New College are the conservatives. These are alleged progressives who will use every tool of force at their disposal (including death threats!) to preserve the existing power structure.

    They’re trying to stop change, silence the little guy, preserve their own authority and defend the status quo. Ron DeSantis is the one speaking truth to power here. I find that delicious.

    If politics were a soccer game, DeSantis would be one of the best players on the team but who keeps putting his hand on the ball. He identifies the right problems but his solutions are frequently a mixed bag. This is one of those times where he’s just playing good soccer.

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